Jump to content

Discussion on recent allegations about the use of illicit drugs in football is forbidden
  • IMPORTANT: PLEASE READ BEFORE POSTING

    Posting unsubstantiated rumours on this website is strictly forbidden.

    Demonland has made the difficult decision to not permit this platform to be used to discuss & debate the off-field issues relating to the Melbourne Football Club including matters currently being litigated between the Club & former Board members, board elections, the issue of illicit drugs in footy, the culture at the club & the personal issues & allegations against some of our players & officials ...

    We do not take these issues & this decision lightly & of course we believe that these serious matters affecting the club we love & are so passionate about are worthy of discussion & debate & I wish we could provide a place where these matters can be discussed in a civil & respectful manner.

    However these discussions unfortunately invariably devolve into areas that may be defamatory, libelous, spread unsubstantiated rumours & can effect the mental health of those involved. Even discussion & debate of known facts or media reports can lead to finger pointing, blame & personal attacks.

    The repercussion is that these discussions can open this website, it’s owners & it’s users to legal action & may result in this website being forced to shutdown.

    Our moderating team are all volunteers & cannot moderate the forum 24/7 & as a consequence problematic content that contravenes our rules & standards may go unnoticed for some time before it can be removed.

    We reserve the right to delete posts that offend against our above policy & indeed, to ban posters who are repeat offenders or who breach our code of conduct.

    WE HAVE BUILT A FANTASTIC ONLINE COMMUNITY AT DEMONLAND OVER THE PAST 23 YEARS & WE WOULD LIKE TO CONTINUE TO BE ABLE TO DISCUSS THE CLUB WE LOVE & ARE SO PASSIONATE ABOUT.

    Thank you for your continued support & understanding. Go Dees.


List Management


rjay

Recommended Posts

We've lauded the work of Jason Taylor & the recruiting team and love the regeneration of the club under PJ & Roos but what about our list management.

Last year we recruited an EFC player with possible sanctions hanging over him, unfortunately that decision left us one down on the list. Luckily we had a good run with injury & it didn't really hurt us.

We got rid of one problem child & took on another (the prince) who then retired leaving us again one down on the list...this one has hurt us.

We have a list deficiency & this is not a hindsight call.

It was obvious to many of us that we were light on in the ruck division.

Max was carrying the load but had been injury prone. Big Jake gives his all but was/is a battler and has also struggled with injury...we then had King who was recovering from a knee and had only played minutes at VFL level and recruited a kid who is not ready for VFL footy let alone AFL.

Our current ruck predicament was predictable and we didn't take out insurance. Someone like Minson would be very handy about now.

Being one list position short hasn't helped but also not using a rookie spot for insurance has hurt.

What also hasn't helped us is we don't have any tall key position players who could go into the ruck and give a contest.

Watts has battled manfully and many have called for Pedders to come and or Frost to take over. Watts 196cm, Pedders 193cm, Frost 194cm, Weid 195cm, Hogan 195cm, Tommy Mc 194cm....

The Dogs didn't need to use Minson as they had key position players in Boyd and Roughead at 200cm and another in Campbell.

A lot will point to a lack of outside run & class but I think we can cover that. To me we lack good adaptable talls...and insurance.

The luck is not running with us this year but we also haven't done ourselves any favours with list decisions.

 

 

 

 

  • Like 7
Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 minutes ago, rjay said:

We've lauded the work of Jason Taylor & the recruiting team and love the regeneration of the club under PJ & Roos but what about our list management.

Last year we recruited an EFC player with possible sanctions hanging over him, unfortunately that decision left us one down on the list. Luckily we had a good run with injury & it didn't really hurt us.

We got rid of one problem child & took on another (the prince) who then retired leaving us again one down on the list...this one has hurt us.

We have a list deficiency & this is not a hindsight call.

 

Of course it's a hindsight call, rjay.  If Gawn and Spencer stay healthy then we don't have this discussion.  They go down and suddenly we have 'gee, in hindsight, we're light on in the ruck division...'.

We have two established ruckmen on the list and two developing.  You can't plan for both established ruckmen to go down as they have.  We don't know if Minson would provide us anything more in this situation than, say, Sam Frost.  Minson couldn't get a run in a Dogs side that used key position players in the ruck instead.  That's pretty telling.

We just have to grin and bear it.  Our mids are going to need to work extra hard around the stoppages as we won't be getting first use often.

  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

We recruited Smith and Keilty as KPF insurance along with Pedersen.  We have four ruck men on our list.  I'm not sure a fifth would have provided the right list balance given that most sides only play one ruck man in the team.  The issue with our list is it's age/game profile.  We just need to get more games into our developing talls like Weideman, Oscar, Frost, McKenna, and Joel Smith (who I think could play CHB), You can throw Hogan in there too for a KPF that's only played two seasons of AFL.  

I agree re Lumumba and Melksham though... very odd recruitment decisions.  Most supporters (including from their original clubs) didn't rate them - why did we?  I think we win with Bernie and Hibberd.  I am ambivalent about Tyson though, does he wear contact lenses?

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

To balance out your points you do need to look also at the impact of adding a player such as Minson to the list.   If Gawn and Spencer both don't get injured the player languishes at VFL level and potentially stymies the development of King and Filipovic.  I really think this is a case of extreme bad luck - including King getting injured.  Also think that while it is a bad situation there are plenty of options - Tom McDonald as a running ruckman and other ideas.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The list management is fine. It would have been kind of the AFL to allow us an additional rookie when the prince retired, but we aren't Collingwood or Hawthorn so the AFL wasn't going to do us any favours.

Gawn, Spencer and King should be enough to compete. We are just unlucky King has been out for 12 months and has just come back, and to lose your first and second ruck in 3 weeks is just cruel. You just can't plan for that. No club can.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

Of course it's a hindsight call, rjay.  If Gawn and Spencer stay healthy then we don't have this discussion.  They go down and suddenly we have 'gee, in hindsight, we're light on in the ruck division...'.

We have two established ruckmen on the list and two developing.  You can't plan for both established ruckmen to go down as they have.  We don't know if Minson would provide us anything more in this situation than, say, Sam Frost.  Minson couldn't get a run in a Dogs side that used key position players in the ruck instead.  That's pretty telling.

We just have to grin and bear it.  Our mids are going to need to work extra hard around the stoppages as we won't be getting first use often.

Disagree, there were a few on here that were concerned about a ruck deficiency before the start of the season.

That's not hindsight, it's foresight and what our list management people are paid for.

...and as I pointed out, our lack of height around the ground means we don't have the luxury of using KPP in the ruck. Watts at 196cm is our tallest KPP.

As 'Red' says, we took a punt and it came unstuck.

 

 

Edited by rjay
  • Like 9
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Managing the ruck component of a list is a constant tightrope nowadays with high mid rotations and no spare spot on the bench for a #2. If your back-up is good enough as a back-up he'll want games and be lured elsewhere - an issue compounded by the time it takes to develop a ruck in-house. You need a second ruck with a second discipline and then an insurance ruck in the waiting.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites


The rookie draft was the perfect opportunity to grab a mature age ruckman which i was crossing my fingers for.

I was pretty disappointed that we went down the pathway of grabbing another skinny project ruckman who had only played 12 months of footy. This is nothing against young Filipovic who i think is a fine young man, but he is 5 years away from at least making any sort of contribution at AFL level. Right now he is playing development league football.

Even young Oscar Mcinerney would have been an ideal selection (currently playing well in the NEAFL for Brissy) as that mature age ruckman.

I few on here last year voiced this exact concern as some didn't see Spencer as an ideal back up. 

 

 

Edited by dazzledavey36
  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Adzman said:

The list management is fine. It would have been kind of the AFL to allow us an additional rookie when the prince retired, but we aren't Collingwood or Hawthorn so the AFL wasn't going to do us any favours.

Gawn, Spencer and King should be enough to compete.We are just unlucky King has been out for 12 months and has just come back, and to lose your first and second ruck in 3 weeks is just cruel. You just can't plan for that. No club can.

It was a known fact that King was injured so of course you can plan for that.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, rjay said:

Disagree, there were a few on here that were concerned about a ruck deficiency before the start of the season.

That's not hindsight, it's foresight and what our list management people are paid for.

...and as I pointed out, our lack of height around the ground means we don't have the luxury of using KPP in the ruck. Watts at 196cm is our tallest KPP.

As 'Red' says, we took a punt and it came unstuck.

 

It's only foresight as both have gone down injured.  I can understand a few being slightly worried before the season, but it isn't something I'd call foresight.  Again, if it doesn't happen then it isn't an issue.  

And for the record, I still don't see it as an issue.  We could have a third ruckman thrust into the game next week who does down injured in the first 5 minutes.  What then?  Same scenario.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

We don't have a player who can play the forward/ruck role effectively. This was spoken about last year & it's why we are still talking about Watts & Pederson to fill in. If we had addressed it at least we'd have some back up now.

The ruck/forward role is a little bit of a wasted position as it's rare to find a quality player for that role. The example being Hawthorn recruiting Hale & then Vickery to replace him. Who would we have traded in?

We've got other issues at the moment still, not enough good kicks but a lot of inside ball winners. We need to find a balance.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

32 minutes ago, Jaded said:

How many teams have 3 mature experienced rucks on their list?

We are unlucky but we are not dumb. 

Meth Coast have Nic Nat, Lycett & Petrie out injured. They are now going with Vardy and Giles

  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Part of the reason why I just don't think we're ready for finals. We have gaps around the place and find ourselves plugging holes and then creating new ones elsewhere. We need Weeds

Link to comment
Share on other sites

41 minutes ago, Bonkers said:

We don't have a player who can play the forward/ruck role effectively. This was spoken about last year & it's why we are still talking about Watts & Pederson to fill in. If we had addressed it at least we'd have some back up now.

The ruck/forward role is a little bit of a wasted position as it's rare to find a quality player for that role. The example being Hawthorn recruiting Hale & then Vickery to replace him. Who would we have traded in?

We've got other issues at the moment still, not enough good kicks but a lot of inside ball winners. We need to find a balance.

Agree.  Fwd-Ruck was the option.  Vardy and Darcy Cameron were available to us at the Hannan and Johnstone picks.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


19 minutes ago, praha said:

Part of the reason why I just don't think we're ready for finals. We have gaps around the place and find ourselves plugging holes and then creating new ones elsewhere. We need Weeds

I thought I saw some TAC video of Weideman rucking in the forward 50?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

26 minutes ago, Pennant St Dee said:

Meth Coast have Nic Nat, Lycett & Petrie out injured. They are now going with Vardy and Giles

Nic Nat and Lycett were already injured and projected to be out most of the season.  Our two ruckmen were super fit.  Big difference.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, M_9 said:

I thought I saw some TAC video of Weideman rucking in the forward 50?

Ultimately Weed needs to ruck relief but he's a couple of years off it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Have to agree with rjay.  It is not hindsight by posters.  It was discussed at length during the trade/draft period on DL. 

There are several parts to our list management dilemma re ruckmen:  

1) It is known that the more successful clubs have at least 3 ruckman eg Hawks, Syd, WCE. ready to play at AFL level and usually 1 developing ruckman.

2) It is known that those that don't have 3 do have (and each week select) a starting 22 player who is a backup ruckman.  Think Boyd, Lobb. Jenkins. Blicvat. 

We don't have either so we are not protected during a game nor if our 2 main ruckman are out medium term with injuries. 

3) We know that Spencer is an FA on a one year contract, expiring this year.  So no guarantee of his tenure.  So next year we may be down to 1 ruckman if Spencer exercises his FA rights.  Probable, I don't know but certainly possible. 

4) We know that King (21yo) and Filipovic (18yo) are babies in ruckman terms and some way from any AFL football let alone holding down a regular AFL ruck role - probably, 3 to 4 years away.

Clearly the strategy was to make Watts the game day backup ruckman.  Already we can see the folly of that.  Firstly, he is not built for the role like Boyd, Lobb etc.  Secondly, Jack rucking leaves a gaping whole in our forward line as we are left with one tall forward (ala Geelong, Richmond) and it has cost us two games.

Yes injuries cannot be foreseen but blind freddy could see our ruck stocks for the next 3/4 years were/are thread bare.  

So no, it is not hindsight.  And yes, it is a huge problem. 

Our list management re ruckman was a roll of the dice, we lost.  But it needn't have been this way.  It was very foreseeable. 

I have heard it said that while list management decisions are a team effort, trading of players is largely the coaches call to fill a short/medium term need.  The drafting of players (especially at the pointy end) is primarily the domain of recruiting to build a balanced long-term list. 

Somewhere along the line in 2016 we misjudged our ruck stocks for the short/medium term.

Edited by Lucifer's Hero
  • Like 8
Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

 

So no, it is not hindsight.  And yes, it is a huge problem. 

 

Yes, it is hindsight, but I've said that enough.  I won't change anybodies mind.

And it's only a problem now as we've had injuries.  If Gawn goes through the year as is AA ruckman again, which he would have done, then nobody cares about the ruck situation.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Unfortunately, your content contains terms that we do not allow. Please edit your content to remove the highlighted words below.
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Demonland Forums  

  • Match Previews, Reports & Articles  

    DEPTH CHARGE by Whispering Jack

    The jubilation on the coach’s face as he danced a celebratory jig by the playing bench after the final siren sounded to record his team’s four-point victory over the Demons when the teams last met, said it all.    On that rainy Friday night at the Adelaide Oval, Ken Hinkley’s young midfield secured much more than four points on offer. The victory over one of the big dogs of the competition after a succession of wins over some of its lesser lights gave his team respect and validation fo

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 5

    TRAINING: Monday 25th March 2024

    Demonland Trackwatchers Demon Dynasty & Kev Martin were trackside at Gosch's Paddock today to bring you their observations from training. DEMON DYNASTY'S TRAINING OBSERVATIONS Kade Chandler's left knee heavily strapped. BBB, Spargs & Jake Lever also in rehab group. Jake Bowey solo running separate kicking/sprint/agility drills. Super fine morning / early arvo at Gosch's for the boys to blow out some cobwebs. Choco initially had the light duties / rehab group

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Training Reports

    HIBERNATING by KC from Casey

    When they locked up the rooms for summer at the end of last year’s football season, the rooms gathered cobwebs, the atmosphere became dense and the place developed a sleepy feel. They opened up the rooms to let Casey out to play on Sunday but the team was still hibernating and they missed the bulk of the opening quarter. By the time they worked out it was game on, their opponents from Box Hill had accumulated five goals and, if the game wasn’t over, it might as well have been. For a se

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Casey Articles

    A FORK IN THE HAWK by George on the Outer

    For too long in the past, Demon fans became habitually sick and tired of watching the Hawks hand out thrashings to their side. But Melbourne’s empahtic 55-point win at the MCG on Saturday has truly put a fork in the Hawk and turned that history well and truly on its head. The Demons have now won nine of their last ten encounters with the other result, a draw.     And like a fork, it was the multi-pronged options that Melbourne had all across the ground.  It certainly helped that Hawthorn

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports 8

    PREGAME: Rd 03 vs Port Adelaide

    The Demons head on the road for the next 2 weeks as they travel to Adelaide to play Port on Saturday and then have a 5 Day break before facing the Crows in the Gather Round. With injuries to May and Lever who comes in and who goes out?

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 262

    PODCAST: Rd 02 vs Hawthorn

    The Demonland Podcast will air LIVE on Monday, 25th March @ 8:30pm. Join George, Binman & I as we analyse the Demons victory at the MCG against the Hawks in the Round 02. You questions and comments are a huge part of our podcast so please post anything you want to ask or say below and we'll give you a shout out on the show. If you would like to leave us a voicemail please call 03 9016 3666 and don't worry no body answers so you don't have to talk to a human. Listen & Chat

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 46

    VOTES: Rd 02 vs Hawthorn

    Last week Steven May took the lead in the Demonland Player of the Year Award from Jack Viney. Clayton Oliver & Max Gawn round out the Top 4. Your votes for the win/loss against/to the Hawks. 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1.

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 50

    POSTGAME: Rd 02 vs Hawthorn

    The Demons cruised to an easy 55 point win over the Hawks at the MCG but but paid a heavy toll on the injury front with Steven May & Jake Lever possibly sidelined for a number of weeks.

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 357

    GAMEDAY: Rd 02 vs Hawthorn

    It's Game Day and after mixed results in the first two weeks of the season the Demons have the opportunity to capitalise on their good form last week when they take on the Hawks at the MCG today.

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 437
  • Tell a friend

    Love Demonland? Tell a friend!

  • Podcast 

  • Podcast 

  • Podcast Stream 


    Open Stream in
    New Window
        TuneIn    Opens in New Tab
  • Support Demonland  



  • 2021 Premiership  

  • Social Media 

  • Non MFC Games  

    NON-MFC: Round 03

    Discussion of all the other games that don't involve the Demons in Round 03 ... READ MORE

    Demonland | Round 03

  • Match Preview      

    DEPTH CHARGE by Whispering Jack

    The jubilation on the coach’s face as he danced a celebratory jig by the playing bench after the final siren sounded to record his team’s four-point victory over the Demons when the teams last met, said it all ... READ MORE

    Demonland | March 27

  • Latest Podcast      

    PODCAST: Rd 02 vs Hawthorn

    The boys dissected the clinical thrashing of Hawks praising the immense performance of Christian Petracca whilst lamenting the injury toll to our defensive unit ... LISTEN

    Demonland | March 26

  • Training  

    Monday, 25th March 2024

    Demonland Trackwatchers Demon Dynasty & Kev Martin were trackside at Gosch's Paddock today to bring you their observations from training ... READ MORE

    Demonland | March 25

  • Casey Report      

    HIBERNATING by KC from Casey

    When they locked up the rooms for summer at the end of last year’s football season, the rooms gathered cobwebs, the atmosphere became dense and the place developed a sleepy feel. They opened up the rooms to let Casey out to play on Sunday but the team was still hibernating and they missed the bulk of the opening quarter ... READ MORE

    Demonland | March 25

  • PreGame      

    PREGAME: Rd 03 vs Port Adelaide

    The Demons head out on the road for the next 2 weeks as they travel to Adelaide to play Port on Saturday and then have a 5 Day break before facing the Crows in Gather Round. With injuries to May and Lever who comes in and who goes out? ...READ MORE

    Demonland | March 28

  • Match Report      

    A FORK IN THE HAWK by George on the Outer

    For too long in the past, Demon fans became habitually sick and tired of watching the Hawks hand out thrashings to their side. But Melbourne’s empahtic 55-point win at the MCG on Saturday has truly put a fork in the Hawk and turned that history well and truly on its head ... READ MORE

    Demonland | March 23

  • Post Game      

    POSTGAME: Rd 02 vs Hawthorn

    The Demons cruised to an easy 55 point win over the Hawks at the MCG but but paid a heavy toll on the injury front with Steven May & Jake Lever possibly sidelined for a number of weeks ...READ MORE

    Demonland | March 23

  • Votes      

    VOTES: Rd 02 vs Hawthorn

    Last week Steven May took the lead in the Demonland Player of the Year Award from Jack Viney. Clayton Oliver & Max Gawn round out the Top 4. Your votes for the win/loss against/to the Hawks. 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 ...READ MORE

    Demonland | March 23

  • Game Day      

    GAMEDAY: Round 02 vs Hawthorn

    It's Game Day and after mixed results in the first two weeks of the season the Demons have the opportunity to capitalise on their good form last week when they take on the Hawks at the MCG today ... READ MORE

    Demonland | March 23

  • Training  

    Friday, 22nd March 2024

    Demonland Trackwatcher Kev Martin and I attended the Captain's Run at Gosch's Paddock on this lovely sunny morning to bring you the following observations from the training session ... READ MORE

    Demonland | March 22

  • Training  

    Tuesday, 19th March 2024

    Demonland Trackwatchers Kev Martin & Walking Civil War attended Tuesday morning's training session at Gosch's Paddock to bring you the following observations ... READ MORE

    Demonland | March 19

  • Training  

    Saturday, 16th March 2024

    Demonland Trackwatchers Kev Martin and Dee Zephyr wandered down to Gosch's Paddock on Saturday morning to bring you their observations from the Captain's Run in the lead up to Sunday's Round One match against the Bulldogs ... READ MORE

    Demonland | March 16

  • Farewell  

    Angus Brayshaw Retires

    After 167 games including the drought breaking Premiership Angus Brayshaw has made the heart breaking decision to medically retire from football as a result of a series of serious head knocks over his nearly decade of footy. We wish Gus all the best and he'll always be a hero at Demonland ... READ MORE

    Demonland | February 22

  • Latest Podcast  

    PODCAST: Koltyn Tholstrup Interview

    I interview the Melbourne Football Club’s newest recruit Koltyn Tholstrup to have a chat about his journey from the farm to the Demons, his first few weeks of preseason training, which Dees have impressed him on the track and his aspirations of playing Round 1 ... LISTEN

    Demonland | December 14

  • Latest Podcast  

    PODCAST: Jason Taylor Interview

    I interview the Melbourne Football Club's National Recruitment Manager Jason Taylor to have a chat about our Trade and Draft period, our newest recruits, our recent recruits who have yet to debut as well as those father son prospects on the horizon ... LISTEN

    Demonland | November 27

  • Next Match 

    .

    Round 03

       vs   

    Saturday 30th March 2024
    @ 07:30pm (AO)

  • MFC Forum  

  • Match Previews & Reports  

  • Training Forum  

  • AFLW Forum  

  • 2024 Player Sponsorship

  • Topics

  • Injury List  


      PLAYER INJURY LENGTH
    Jake Lever Knee Test
    Clayton Oliver Hand Test
    Oliver Sestan Concussion Test
    Steven May Ribs 1 Week
    Lachie Hunter Calf 1 Week
    Daniel Turner Hip 2-3 Weeks
    Charlie Spargo Achilles 2-4 Weeks
    Shane McAdam Hamstring 3-5 Weeks
    Jake Bowey Shoulder 7 Weeks
    Jake Melksham ACL 12-14 Weeks
    Joel Smith Suspension TBA

  • Player of the Year  


        PLAYER VOTES
    1 Christian Petracca 27
    2 Steven May 25
    3 Max Gawn 21
    4 Jack Viney 20
    5 Bayley Fritsch 19
    6 Clayton Oliver 18
    7 Christian Salem 12
    8 Blake Howes 11
    9 Jack Billings 10
    9 Alex Neal-Bullen 10

        FULL TABLE
  • Demonland Interviews 



  • Upcoming Events 

×
×
  • Create New...