Changes v Essendon (Round 6)

[Wiseblood 24,636]

14 minutes ago, DeeZee said:

Melksham has to go out this week, I really hope the coach isn't playing favorites as there are guys like Mitch White who havent a put a foot wrong and aren't getting a run.

You don't really think a professional AFL coach in the modern game would be playing favourites, do you?

And Mitch White is on the rookie list, so he is not exactly a ready made replacement.

[Demons1858 1,657]

12 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

You don't really think a professional AFL coach in the modern game would be playing favourites, do you?

And Mitch White is on the rookie list, so he is not exactly a ready made replacement.

All coaches have favourites like everyone else. We all value footy attributes (hardness, marking, tackling etc) differently and therefore players differently, Coaches are no different but do have the responsibility to not mark a players cards too early and give them the chance to develop.

Melkshem is a favorite. He recruited him as he thinks highly of him. Goodwin will stick with him a little longer than most to see if he can turn it around after not playing for a long time.  Maybe an opportunity in the midfield will kick him into gear but has been uninspiring so far

Edited April 25, 2017 by Demons1858

[Satan 2,722]

Change the 3rd man up rule , we need it back

[beelzebub 22,225]

8 minutes ago, Demons1858 said:

All coaches have favourites like everyone else. We all value footy attributes (hardness, marking, tackling etc) differently and therefore players differently, Coaches are no different but do have the responsibility to not mark a players cards too early and give them the chance to develop.

Melkshem is a favorite. He recruited him as he thinks highly of him. Goodwin will stick with him a little longer than most to see if he can turn it around after not playing for a long time.  Maybe an opportunity in the midfield will kick him into gear but has been uninspiring so far

Coaches are human. 

To think they dont have persuasions to both style and players is unrealistic. Though probably not blatant, leanings will exist.

[Radar Detector 1,339]

9 hours ago, bing181 said:

There is no win-win here, whatever we do is just shuffling the deck chairs. Without an AFL-quality ruck, we're going to be playing without an AFL-quality ruck, and everything that goes with it.

The one advantage of Watts/Frost is that they become an extra mid once the ball hits the ground. But if opposition rucks are directing the ball where they want (and they will), then even this becomes moot.

The football gods giveth, and the football gods taketh away, and in this case, we'll just have to suck it up.

Similarly the main disadvantage of Watts/Frost is it disrupts our structures forward and back. We are lacking i50 targets without Watts in there as well.

But having a non-AFL standard ruckman robs us of an extra mid compared with using Watts.

[Demons1858 1,657]

On 24/04/2017 at 11:11 PM, Socrates said:

We have lost games to teams we easily beat last year - we have not improved

Out: Goodwin

In: Roos

 

 

Not sure which games you watched last year plus geelong and richmond are top of the ladder

[poita 3,573]

Pedersen, O.McDonald, Lewis & maybe Bugg to come in. I wouldn't be upset to have another tall on the bench either, but certainly not King who has barely played - is anyone else left?

Spencer, Smith, Melksham & our most tired midfielder to come out. JKH, Stretch and Harmes all very lucky.

Pedersen to ruck, supported by Watts & Frost. Happy for Tommy Mac to spend time forward to cover Watts. We saw how badly Tom did against Daniher last year, so prefer Frost to get first go this year. Oscar to Hooker.

Hogan, Watts / Pedersen & T.McDonald to play forward. 

Lewis needs to dominate this match - he owes us massively.

[DeeZee 6,719]

37 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

You don't really think a professional AFL coach in the modern game would be playing favourites, do you?

And Mitch White is on the rookie list, so he is not exactly a ready made replacement.

Why else would he be playing him?

Mitch White (possible upgrade) , Trengove, Maynard,Johnstone, OMac even, anybody but Melksham

[Wiseblood 24,636]

Just now, DeeZee said:

Why else would he be playing him?

Mitch White (possible upgrade) , Trengove, Maynard,Johnstone, OMac even, anybody but Melksham

None of the players you mentioned, outside of White, play in the same position that Melksham does.  Trengove and Maynard play through the middle, while Johnstone is a small forward.  O Mac plays tall.

He's playing him because, at the minute, there is no one better to have down there and it's clear they want to release guys like Salem to play predominantly through the midfield.

[DeeZee 6,719]

Wagner?

[beelzebub 22,225]

6 minutes ago, DeeZee said:

Wagner?

Injured

[DeeZee 6,719]

Jetta. TMac  Hibberd 

Hunt.  Frost.  Lewis

 

That should do it.

[Mad_Melbourne 872]

Four or 5 changes this week, will be interesting to see if Petracca can get up from his knock.

Ins: Lewis, OMAC, Weideman, Bugg

Outs: Smith, Spencer, JKH, Melksham/ANB

I am in two minds about how we go about it, do we let bring in Weideman and Oscar and run with a Watts/Frost duo, almost the bulldogs mould last year, because at the end of the day the other option Pederson is also just someone who will be in their to compete more so than win. The more I think about it, the more i prefer this model, let Frost play #1 ruck, let Watts play #2 and forward more, push OMAC into the backline and Weideman can play key forward.

JKH should be dropped, i was not a fan of him playing in the first place but obviously they see him being able to bring something that Kent or Hannan dont. (personally, i think JKH is a very limited player, not overly quick,  disposes of the footy well but does not get it enough and is a good shot at goal but rarely is front and centre of the packs and is not a marking option)

These changes would result in Lewis spending more time at half back and Bugg playing more as a wing/hf and Harmes playing that higher hf role.

I think Neal Bullen has perfromed pretty solidly and same with Melksham, but both have consistently been in the 13-17 player bracket, in my opinion.

[Deeoldfart 7,711]

I was leaning towards giving King a try in the ruck because it would have least impact on our forward / back half structures.  However, after reading Plappy's review of his VFL game on the weekend, it's clear that he's not ready at this stage ....... very promising first-up performance, but still on limited match time.  

Plappy on "Mitch King: He had seven disposals, 28 hit outs and five tackles in his first game in over 12 months. It was his first game back after his knee injury, which happened in the first game of the VFL season last year. We were delighted with his first-up performance, playing in the ruck. He really jumped at the ball and his follow-up work was very strong. Mitch is another player who is going to take a bit of time to build him back into full match time. We were really bullish about his return".

Back to Plan A for me I guess (Pedersen with Watts or Frost pinch hitting), but I really dislike the impact this will have on our structures.  

Is your mate Dec a chance to come in and help out Drunkn?  At least he seems to offer some flexibility,

[GawnWithTheWind 604]

Ins: Lewis - Pedo - Bugg

Outs: Spencer - Smith - Harmes

------

FB: Jetta - Frost - Hibberd

HB: Hunt - TMAC - Lewis

C: Vince - N.Jones - Salem

HF: Trac - Hogan - ANB

FF: Garlett - Watts - JKH

R: Pedo - Viney - Oliver

I: Tyson - Bugg - Stretch - Melksham

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,381]

In: Pedersen for Smith; O McDonald for Frost's position with Frost going in to the ruck; Lewis for JKH with one of the mids (perhaps Salem) spending more time forward. The only question for me is whether Watts or Pedersen help Frost. On balance, I'd go with Watts. Hogan will be a much better player with another tall, marking target nearby for the whole game which will make it harder for Essendon's talls to double team Hogan as Richmond was able to do.

No other changes are necessary unless forced through injury.  

 

[praha 10,267]

At the end of the day, we don't have any major injury concerns outside of our two first ruck options. We have a young ruck in waiting who isn't AFL ready. We have mid-sized talls like Pederson, who can come in and ruck. It's not ideal but it's not the end of the world. I'm confident we have depth in the backline, forward and middle. Lewis comes in, and we have talent with the likes of Kennedy, Bugg and Kent who can all come in. We aren't anywhere near as badly hit as some make it out to be. Losing Gawn with both Hogan and Lewis already out hit hard. It wouldn't have been anywhere near as bad if the two weren't suspended.

The one thing I don't like about Watts going into the ruck is that it forces Hogan into playing deeper. He ends up stuck too deep and can't get his hands on the ball. He's a pure CHF and having Watts at centre bounces significantly hurts our scoring chances.

I wouldn't make major changes to the lineup outside of bringing in Pederson for Spencer (and obviously Lewis for Smith). Watts or Hogan nominate ruck contests forward of center. Pederson takes all center bounces, and stays behind the ball. Should there be a throw-in or ball-up deep in our defense, either Pederson gets their for the contest, or Frost goes up.

It's undesirable but imo we need to limit the amount of center bounces Watts is at.  This will certainly test Goodwin's coaching. I think it's clear that we need Watts in other areas.

Edited April 26, 2017 by praha

[Demons1858 1,657]

32 minutes ago, praha said:

At the end of the day, we don't have any major injury concerns outside of our two first ruck options. We have a young ruck in waiting who isn't AFL ready. We have mid-sized talls like Pederson, who can come in and ruck. It's not ideal but it's not the end of the world. I'm confident we have depth in the backline, forward and middle. Lewis comes in, and we have talent with the likes of Kennedy, Bugg and Kent who can all come in. We aren't anywhere near as badly hit as some make it out to be. Losing Gawn with both Hogan and Lewis already out hit hard. It wouldn't have been anywhere near as bad if the two weren't suspended.

The one thing I don't like about Watts going into the ruck is that it forces Hogan into playing deeper. He ends up stuck too deep and can't get his hands on the ball. He's a pure CHF and having Watts at centre bounces significantly hurts our scoring chances.

I wouldn't make major changes to the lineup outside of bringing in Pederson for Spencer (and obviously Lewis for Smith). Watts or Hogan nominate ruck contests forward of center. Pederson takes all center bounces, and stays behind the ball. Should there be a throw-in or ball-up deep in our defense, either Pederson gets their for the contest, or Frost goes up.

It's undesirable but imo we need to limit the amount of center bounces Watts is at.  This will certainly test Goodwin's coaching. I think it's clear that we need Watts in other areas.

Agree with most of this post.

Would have frost in the ruck however. Pederson to assist and Watts plays forward all day and provides the composure we need. Kent won't play didn't do enough at Casey. 

Maynard might be a smokey. Seems to be getting it in midfield a bit but might a little early. Stats are looking good recently

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,381]

39 minutes ago, Demons1858 said:

Agree with most of this post.

Would have frost in the ruck however. Pederson to assist and Watts plays forward all day and provides the composure we need. Kent won't play didn't do enough at Casey. 

Maynard might be a smokey. Seems to be getting it in midfield a bit but might a little early. Stats are looking good recently

I don't particularly like Watts in the ruck. However, if the club has come to the view that Pedersen is only going to be a stop-gap player until Gawn/Spencer/T Smith return from injury and that Watts will be the long-term relief ruckman, they should continue to play Watts in that role, even when Pedersen is in the side. This is so the on-ball brigade get used to playing with Watts in that role.

[beelzebub 22,225]

Watts has competed as Ruck primarily as a chop out. 

He's not expected to win much just force a contest.

Why would you play him effectively out of position and seriously decrease his impact in general play ?

Bring other/s in to force the contest. Share load around.

If Watts is left to carry this i can only question the sensibility of our FD.

[pitmaster 3,052]

Lewis back is obvious.

Looking at Justin Plapp's report Pederson looks highly likely as he should be to share ruck duties so we don't continue crucifying Watts:

 "He had 16 disposals, six marks, 10 hit outs and kicked two goals. We felt that was one of Cam’s better performances, particularly through the pre-season and the early part of the year. He played the role that we need him to, and he was able to compete and bring other players into the game. When he wasn’t marking the ball, he was able to put the opposition under some really strong pressure. We felt that he was one of our really strong contributors on the night."

Oscar Mac looks likely: 

"He only played half a game, due to being held over as an emergency for the AFL game. In that time, he had eight possessions, four marks, three inside 50s and two tackles. We felt his half of footy was really solid and some of his highlights were very good – he really attacked the ball well in the air and really set the tone for our defenders and the way we defended. In the half he played, Oscar was very good." 

Bugg may return if one of our mids does not come up:

"Tom had 32 disposals, seven inside 50s, 10 tackles and five goals. It was a really positive performance from Tom. He certainly responded really well, after being left out of the Melbourne team. Tom played a real AFL game at VFL level, so we were really rapt with his performance."

I'd like to see Frost share ruck duties with Peddo in order to leave Watts forward. His rucking is worthy but robs us of scoring potential and leaves Hogan too exposed as the obvious target.

Neither King or White is a chance...too raw, too underdone, take your pick.

 

[dino rover 617]

On 24/04/2017 at 11:20 PM, Fifty-5 said:

I'd ruck TMac - he has the bulk for it and can run all day, he's done it before.

OMac into the backline with Frost and Hibberd.

Pedersen for Smith and he and Watts can both spell TMac.

Lewis for Melksham.

Listening to goody post match I think they will and perhaps must try something radical with 2 traditional rucks out

Pedo doesnt have the tank for a long ruck gig

Tmac would have the tank and while he may lose the tap - after the tap and between ruck contests he might offer more - watts does

[#11-TonyAnderson 691]

On ‎25‎/‎04‎/‎2017 at 0:28 AM, Go the Biff said:

I'm no Melksham fan - never wanted him in the first place & am often looking for negatives in his game - but I thought he put his head over the ball and his body on the line tonight. The no tackle stat surprises me. I thought he cracked in.

Unfortunately he chooses to bump all the time instead of tackle, which is what he did Monday night. Smart players will know that is his pattern and simply evade the bump they know is coming!

[beelzebub 22,225]

Just now, #11-TonyAnderson said:

Unfortunately he chooses to bump all the time instead of tackle, which is what he did Monday night. Smart players will know that is his pattern and simply evade the bump they know is coming!

Much to this. Milkshake needs to impact and tackling is a part to this.

No bruise- free types thanks.

[old55 21,216]

13 minutes ago, dino rover said:

Listening to goody post match I think they will and perhaps must try something radical with 2 traditional rucks out

Pedo doesnt have the tank for a long ruck gig

Tmac would have the tank and while he may lose the tap - after the tap and between ruck contests he might offer more - watts does

I acknowledge the risk of playing TMac in the ruck is that Daniher and Hooker get a hold of OMac and Frost, but I think this is mitigated somewhat by having Hibberd in form and Lewis back.  Pedersen needs to come in too for flexibility.