Welcome to Demonland: Jake Lever

[Bitter but optimistic 21,150]

We wanted him

We got him

He is a good established player

But

He better finish at least top 5 B and F

We better make the finals.

 

[Wiseblood 24,636]

Super article here on the trade if you can get past the paywall:

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/more-news/melbourne-secures-star-defender-jake-lever-in-trade-with-adelaide/news-story/478b76c2d2f380b5c10dc191f2b54af5

Basically says we've done very well, while also discussing some areas of the trade that some would be concerned about as well.

The line at the end sums it up for me - the time for early picks for us is over, and we need to add to our list to make a tilt at a flag.  Jake Lever pushes us in the right direction in this regard in a big way.

[spirit of norm smith 12,829]

1 hour ago, Dee tention said:

We really needed to keep our 2018 First Pick. We made a blew there...

I thought it was quite achievable to get them two first rounders rhis year. Namely 15 & 16 from the Tiggers.

Anyway, its all done now.

VERY HAPPY TO HAVE SNAKE ON BOARD.

 

Agree Tigers 15,17 to Dees for pick 10 & 27 & 2nd round 2018

then 15&17 to Crows 

maybe Tigers too exhausted 

[waynewussell 4,081]

I'm not even going to bother to rewind to find who suggested trading Brayshaw.... My advice "Get a grip!"

[mo64 5,208]

To all the Goodwin critics, surely it's an endorsement of him, when the best out of contract player available in this trade period has chosen the MFC.

Whilst money may or may not have been a factor, his future coach would definitely have been a major factor in his decision.

 

[waynewussell 4,081]

Goodwin critics are premature...

[Demons1858 1,657]

12 minutes ago, Macca said:

So let's get this straight ...

You're unsure whether he'll play 10 years for us whilst I reckon he almost certainly will. 

Our discussion is therefore over.

Your actually agreeing with me now 'l reckon ... almost ... ' will. Thats what l said 2 posts ago its not guaranteed but it may be likely. End of convo

[Demon Disciple 10,882]

You need to play 8 years at a club before you qualify for FA status.

By signing with us, Lever's FA status has gone back to year 0.

[Macca 16,173]

1 minute ago, Demons1858 said:

Your actually agreeing with me now 'l reckon ... almost ... ' will. Thats what l said 2 posts ago its not guaranteed but it may be likely. End of convo

'Almost certainly' is what I wrote not 'almost'

If his form continues on the trajectory that he's displayed so far,  we're on an absolute winner.

For what it's worth,  I wouldn't trade Oliver for 3 top 10 picks.  And it's line-ball whether 4 top 10 picks would be enough for a player of Oliver's quality.  As many others here have said, draft picks are massively overrated.  And the facts and results of drafting bear out those views.

Adelaide pushed for fair compensation because they know how good Lever can be - Lever's exposed form is at senior AFL level,  not junior football. 

But as previously stated,  I still believe we won out on the deal.

 

 

 

 

 

[Gipsy Danger 1,067]

8 hours ago, jnrmac said:

Well... Tom Boyd was $1m a year Buddy was a big 10y deal. Thats for a start. Wait till Tom Lynch says hes leaving GC then you'll see how desperate clubs are to secure a key fwd...

Yeah but Boyd still only cost the Dogs an aging Ryan Griffin. I just think two first rounders is too high for a defender. I'd expect that kind of price tag on a Hogan, Patton or Daniher 

[TGR 1,367]

We paid too high a price.

Which Vic club was going to offer anything like the farm?

 

 

Adelaide are laughing.  We could have screwed them and played chicken to the end.

 

 

 

Goodwin and Co are desperate for finals in 2017.  Great, but takes from the next decade.

[rpfc 27,382]

28 minutes ago, mo64 said:

To all the Goodwin critics, surely it's an endorsement of him, when the best out of contract player available in this trade period has chosen the MFC.

Whilst money may or may not have been a factor, his future coach would definitely have been a major factor in his decision.

 

I guess that is me?

 

I was about to give my obligatory 'Teenage Lottery Draft of the AFL' line so I say 'well done, Josh!'

It will only blow up in our faces if we finish in the bottom 4...

As for Goodwin; he has done well to convince Lever to come to a team that has done nothing. Kudos also to Viney, Mahoney, et al.

'Goody' now has an excellent collection of talent at his disposal in my opinion for 2018 and beyond. We have star defenders in Hibberd, Jetta, and Lever. Star mids in Oliver and Petracca, with excellent help from Viney and Jones. And a forward line with Hogan, McDonald and Garlett can create enough chances to kick enough goals.

We are in 'hashtag noexcuses' territory.

[faultydet 7,593]

3 minutes ago, TGR said:

We paid too high a price.

Which Vic club was going to offer anything like the farm?

 

 

Adelaide are laughing.  We could have screwed them and played chicken to the end.

 

 

 

Goodwin and Co are desperate for finals in 2017.  Great, but takes from the next decade.

Some people are never happy.

We paid a fair price for a supposed top tier talent, and left ourselves with good relations, which may very well benefit us at a later date.

The picks are gone now, but we have Jake Lever at our club. Just set your alarm so you only turn your TV on at the second round of the draft. Maybe you could while away the time watching Levers highlights package. Actually, have a look at the player ratings from the Grand Final, taken from the AFL site.

Then try to crack a smile

 

[Demon17 4,519]

7 minutes ago, rpfc said:

I guess that is me?

 

I was about to give my obligatory 'Teenage Lottery Draft of the AFL' line so I say 'well done, Josh!'

It will only blow up in our faces if we finish in the bottom 4...

As for Goodwin; he has done well to convince Lever to come to a team that has done nothing. Kudos also to Viney, Mahoney, et al.

'Goody' now has an excellent collection of talent at his disposal in my opinion for 2018 and beyond. We have star defenders in Hibberd, Jetta, and Lever. Star mids in Oliver and Petracca, with excellent help from Viney and Jones. And a forward line with Hogan, McDonald and Garlett can create enough chances to kick enough goals.

We are in 'hashtag noexcuses' territory.

And the sky might fall too.  Confusing post.  We have a great list , and strong backlines win flags,  but "...if we finish bottom 4..."

 

[Demons1858 1,657]

10 minutes ago, Macca said:

'Almost certainly' is what I wrote not 'almost'

If his form continues on the trajectory that he's displayed so far,  we're on an absolute winner.

For what it's worth,  I wouldn't trade Oliver for 3 top 10 picks.  And it's line-ball whether 4 top 10 picks would be enough for a player of Oliver's quality.  As many others here have said, draft picks are massively overrated.  And the facts and results of drafting bear out those views.

Adelaide pushed for fair compensation because they know how good Lever can be - Lever's exposed form is at senior AFL level,  not junior football. 

But as previously stated,  I still believe we won out on the deal.

Stats on here have been badly skewed and sampled  On average a gun or likely young gun is recruited with every two top picks. Lets hope Lever is a gun otherwise we lose. No player is worth 3/4 top picks including oliver. You can't be serious. If Lever wasn't out of contract then l would understand why we oaid overs

[Members' Wing 1,106]

18 minutes ago, Gipsy Danger said:

Yeah but Boyd still only cost the Dogs an aging Ryan Griffin. I just think two first rounders is too high for a defender. I'd expect that kind of price tag on a Hogan, Patton or Daniher 

Griffen AND pick 6.

[rpfc 27,382]

Just now, Demon17 said:

And the sky might fall too.  Confusing post.  We have a great list , and strong backlines win flags,  but "...if we finish bottom 4..."

 

I didn't mean to confuse you - if we finish in the bottom 4, the draft pick we gave up will be worth much more than what we are currently projecting.

If I thought we were going to finish in the bottom 4, I would not have intimated there are no excuses for not competing for the flag next year.

Therefore, that trade being 'measured' is dependent on how we go next year because top draft picks are more valuable than draft picks that are further down the draft order.

Does that follow?

[Ethan Tremblay 28,278]

14 minutes ago, TGR said:

We paid too high a price.

Which Vic club was going to offer anything like the farm?

 

 

Adelaide are laughing.  We could have screwed them and played chicken to the end.

 

 

 

Goodwin and Co are desperate for finals in 2017.  Great, but takes from the next decade.

And if we didn’t get Lever and we don’t make finals next season you’d be complaining as well. Pick 10 and next years first round pick (might be pick 18) is not ‘the farm’. 

[mo64 5,208]

12 minutes ago, rpfc said:

I guess that is me?

 

I was about to give my obligatory 'Teenage Lottery Draft of the AFL' line so I say 'well done, Josh!'

It will only blow up in our faces if we finish in the bottom 4...

As for Goodwin; he has done well to convince Lever to come to a team that has done nothing. Kudos also to Viney, Mahoney, et al.

'Goody' now has an excellent collection of talent at his disposal in my opinion for 2018 and beyond. We have star defenders in Hibberd, Jetta, and Lever. Star mids in Oliver and Petracca, with excellent help from Viney and Jones. And a forward line with Hogan, McDonald and Garlett can create enough chances to kick enough goals.

We are in 'hashtag noexcuses' territory.

And yet you annointed Roos the Greatest Caretaker Coach ever.

2016 we had a full list under Roos and won 10 games. 2017 we were hit hard by injuries to key players and won 12 games. 

Even if we played finals, you would have given the credit to Roos.

 

 

[Watts Jurrah Dunn? 735]

The Pick 35 sh1ts me. With compo it will go to 37 or 38. Just speculative crap.

For us to cough up two first rounders we had to make the Crows find us something in the Top 25.

The soft Roos trading mantra of "win/win" and good blokeing yourself lives on. 

[faultydet 7,593]

Just now, Ethan Tremblay said:

And if we didn’t get Lever and we don’t make finals next season you’d be complaining as well. Pick 10 and next years first round pick (might be pick 18) is not ‘the farm’. 

I'm on your side Eth, but I do ask myself how I would feel if our wheels fell off next year, and it turns out to be pick 8

It would be very Melbourne for that to happen.

I think it is an indication that our coaching group thinks we are about to hit the big time. That alone is worth at least some excitement.

Jared Rivers was made for todays zoning game. I think we just traded for a modern upgrade with solid kicking skills.

[Demon17 4,519]

8 minutes ago, rpfc said:

I didn't mean to confuse you - if we finish in the bottom 4, the draft pick we gave up will be worth much more than what we are currently projecting.

If I thought we were going to finish in the bottom 4, I would not have intimated there are no excuses for not competing for the flag next year.

Therefore, that trade being 'measured' is dependent on how we go next year because top draft picks are more valuable than draft picks that are further down the draft order.

Does that follow?

yes it does.  and I agree, but the issue for me is the " what if..." 

The club clearly have a strong view on list quality which I agree with. No finals next year will be a bigger disaster than 2017

[manny100 1,000]

It was top $. Clubs need to deal with players with respect. Adelaide showed no respect to Lever. That will be a turn off for players they want to recruit. Will they do that to me? They have promised me the world - will they get the deal done? Ask Gibbs. 

At least we took the pressure off Lever by dealing early. We showed the AFL world that we walk the talk. Better to get a reputation amongst players as a club who respects and deals fairly.

The Crows need to be careful they do not lose their ability to acquire good players.

I also think we treated Jack Watts with respect.

Sometimes it pays to generate goodwill so I am ok with the price we paid.

[Cards13 9,117]

28 minutes ago, TGR said:

We paid too high a price.

Which Vic club was going to offer anything like the farm?

 

 

Adelaide are laughing.  We could have screwed them and played chicken to the end.

 

 

 

Goodwin and Co are desperate for finals in 2017.  Great, but takes from the next decade.

No it doesn't, over reaction as usual. 2 picks doesn't take from 10 years. 

Win now, yes but we have seen the club has been able to cobble together trades to get back into first rounds/update picks let alone being able to pick quality later in the draft.

Again as others have said we've stock piled top end talent, now is the time to hit finals hard.

[Macca 16,173]

1 minute ago, Demons1858 said:

Stats on here have been badly skewed and sampled  On average a gun or likely young gun is recruited with every two top picks. Lets hope Lever is a gun otherwise we lose. No player is worth 3/4 top picks including oliver. You can't be serious. If Lever wasn't out of contract then l would understand why we oaid overs

How many genuine A graders are in the top 10 picks on average?  Say, over a 10 year period.  Many would be surprised how few there actually are.  Maybe 20-25 out of a 100.  That's 1 in 5 or at best, 1 in 4 (top 10 picks)

That's just the reality of the actual results.  I created a thread about it a few years ago.  Within the OP I provide a link to all the ND's from 2000 through to 2009.  So there's the 10 year sample size. 

How many genuine A graders?  Forget B grade players or 150 game players ... only genuine A graders for the sake of the exercise.

Oliver is well on his way to becoming a genuine A grade player so that's why I wouldn't trade him easily ... let's all hope that Lever ends up the same. 

Here's that thread (again) ... Bad Luck or Bad Recruiting