Welcome to Demonland: Jake Lever

[McQueen 17,862]

13 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Do we know what Mr. Lever has in mind for his future, or is he driving Managerial spin at this point?

I think the fact that in the article he's mentioned his partner has a fair say in the decision, you wouldn't be silly to think he's odds on to move back to Vic.

[jnrmac 18,945]

49 minutes ago, TeamPlayedFine39 said:

Who do we have on our list from SA?

Trengove ANB Stretch Kennedy Vince

Wold they consider a first rounder + ANB or Stretch??  Maybe not.

First and second round pick?

I am tipping....I know this is a big call but.....I am tipping they won't want Vince...

Just sayin...

[Diamond_Jim 11,737]

1 minute ago, jnrmac said:

I am tipping....I know this is a big call but.....I am tipping they won't want Vince...

Just sayin...

big call.... do you have inside info by any chance ... (who did he barrack for as a kid seems to be a popular indicator as well)

[whatwhat say what 18,893]

Crows supporters super confident Lever is going nowhere; just waiting for cba to be settled

Those doubting the value of Weed need their heads read; key position talls are pretty rare these days, look at the value and desire for Schache as an example...plus Weed is going nowhere seeing as he recently signed til end of 2019 and will be a huge part of our forward structure in coming years

[Grimes Times 1,278]

3 hours ago, Luther said:

Weideman has virtually no currency at this stage OD.

If you think that you have NFI.

Weed would get first round pick if we wanted to trade him. Take that to the bank.

[Grimes Times 1,278]

3 hours ago, old dee said:

First round pick and Weideman fits well for me.

So your happy to trade 2 first round picks for Lever??

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

2 hours ago, old dee said:

When DD? I have seen nothing yet to suggest he is more than an ok VFL player.

Exactly. ie, better than McCartin. lol

His first season he was doing great in the VFL. I think leading their goalkicking before he started getting some games with the Dees. That's more than Paddy's done.

And yes, since you made the point, that's enough to keep him. We all know how it works for 195cm players. They get a pass for a few years while their bodies develop. You're expecting midfielder returns on a player who's the same height as Jeff White.

Check out the Adelaide Lynch's stats for the first few years of his career. Two years at Saints doing less than what Weed's done so far and they made the same mistake you did. Traded him to Crows for peanuts, who gave him 12 months, after which he exploded and is now a key part of the best attack in the game.

Getting good took Watts about 5 years, and he's the same height. Gawn took longer.

There's really no point in drafting these kids if we only give them 24 months to start winning games off their own boots. They can't all be Hogan.

[dino rover 618]

On 02/06/2017 at 1:46 AM, RalphiusMaximus said:

The thing is, it's all very well to talk about the size of defenders right now and Lever is right in the middle of the field (and taller than I thought), but it doesn't address the issue.  A few weeks ago BEN BROWN tore us apart.  Now he's an ok player, but he's no Wayne Carey.  In round six, Joe Danniher kicked six straight points before his one goal.  That could easily have been a seven goal haul to win them the game. Darcy Moore isn't there yet, but he's a mobile 201cms.  GWS have Patton at a shortish 198cm and Lobb floating in at 207.  Port have Dixon and the Hoff at 2m+ and Ryder chipping in at just shy of 2m.  Boyd at the Doggies is 2m.  Even Brisbane have Schache (for now) at 199 and Hipwood at 202.  These guys stretch their arms up and we have nobody short of Max Gawn who has a chance of getting a fist to the ball.  We need to get pro-active and try to find a solution.  Maybe that means grabbing an American Basketball reject and training them to spoil or converting a spare ruck (like we have one). 

Here here well said

194cm is a midfielder soon if not now

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

12 minutes ago, dino rover said:

Here here well said

194cm is a midfielder soon if not now

There aren't any serious defenders in the league that play at 200cm. And they're not going to put a spot on the list for a guy that height who only defends.

Plenty of good 193-196cm defenders who do the job well. Rance 194, Hurley 193.

The height isn't the issue with our guys. Nor is their quality. They're just young.

[Watts the matter 1,235]

19 minutes ago, Dappa Dan said:

Exactly. ie, better than McCartin. lol

His first season he was doing great in the VFL. I think leading their goalkicking before he started getting some games with the Dees. That's more than Paddy's done.

And yes, since you made the point, that's enough to keep him. We all know how it works for 195cm players. They get a pass for a few years while their bodies develop. You're expecting midfielder returns on a player who's the same height as Jeff White.

Check out the Adelaide Lynch's stats for the first few years of his career. Two years at Saints doing less than what Weed's done so far and they made the same mistake you did. Traded him to Crows for peanuts, who gave him 12 months, after which he exploded and is now a key part of the best attack in the game.

Getting good took Watts about 5 years, and he's the same height. Gawn took longer.

There's really no point in drafting these kids if we only give them 24 months to start winning games off their own boots. They can't all be Hogan.

Not how I remember it, started the season really well then dropped off and was playing really poorly. Had 1 or maybe 2 good games and suddenly was a surprise inclusion for the Hawthorn game where he played well (on a first gamer).

Since then has been extremely average to the extent that most supporters were impressed because he laid some tackles against Adelaide. 

He is young and has time on his side but with young players you look at their attributes and that's why some people (like myself) don't just assume he will be a good player because he was an early pick. Hipwood was taken in the same draft and is head and shoulders ahead of Weideman at this stage (also over 200m).

McCartin has clearly shown more at AFL level, has had many nearly moments. Weideman struggles to get involved.

 

[old dee 22,846]

37 minutes ago, Grimes Times said:

So your happy to trade 2 first round picks for Lever??

Two is how you see it GT. Wishful thinking really as the Crows are not that gullible.

Edited June 15, 2017 by old dee

[old dee 22,846]

41 minutes ago, Grimes Times said:

If you think that you have NFI.

Weed would get first round pick if we wanted to trade him. Take that to the bank.

I would take that in a heart beat.

Edited June 15, 2017 by old dee

[old dee 22,846]

4 minutes ago, Watts the matter said:

Not how I remember it, started the season really well then dropped off and was playing really poorly. Had 1 or maybe 2 good games and suddenly was a surprise inclusion for the Hawthorn game where he played well (on a first gamer).

Since then has been extremely average to the extent that most supporters were impressed because he laid some tackles against Adelaide. 

He is young and has time on his side but with young players you look at their attributes and that's why some people (like myself) don't just assume he will be a good player because he was an early pick. Hipwood was taken in the same draft and is head and shoulders ahead of Weideman at this stage (also over 200m).

McCartin has clearly shown more at AFL level, has had many nearly moments. Weideman struggles to get involved.

 

Excellent summation Wtm.

[dino rover 618]

8 minutes ago, Dappa Dan said:

There aren't any serious defenders in the league that play at 200cm. And they're not going to put a spot on the list for a guy that height who only defends.

Plenty of good 193-196cm defenders who do the job well. Rance 194, Hurley 193.

The height isn't the issue with our guys. Nor is their quality. They're just young.

Fair point I dobt even know how tall lever is

Carlisle is at the height

196 is more common

My point is the future is taller

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

Just now, Watts the matter said:

He is young and has time on his side but with young players you look at their attributes and that's why some people (like myself) don't just assume he will be a good player because he was an early pick. Hipwood was taken in the same draft and is head and shoulders ahead of Weideman at this stage (also over 200m).

McCartin has clearly shown more at AFL level, has had many nearly moments. Weideman struggles to get involved.

 

And likewise, just because I'm hopeful he'll turn out ok, it doesn't mean I'm "assuming" anything. I didn't offer any opinions or facts about Weed other than to say he did well at VFL level. Not do I think his value as an early pick makes any difference of any kind, other than to say it's likely his draft position makes him more attractive in a trade. I'll give you the tackle thing though. Classic case of supporters clutching at straws.

Hipwood's an exception, along with Hogan. Brown possibly, Riewoldt. Want some examples of talls who took years to get good? Lynch, Lynch, Daniher, Buddy, Kreuzer, Hawkins, Hooker, Lobb, Brown, Waite, Kennedy, Dixon... And that's just the now guys. History is littered with KP forwards who went from frustrating or downright disappointing at 20 to dominant at 23.

Disagree McCartin's shown more. He's had an extra year in the system, is way heavier and match ready and has never kicked more than 2 goals in a game. Weed struggles to get involved, but has more time on his side. Also never had Reiwoldt to take the best defender.

There'll come a time to write Weed off... and you never know, you may be right in 2 years if he ends up being a dud. The point is though, if we get off every 195cm kid after his first 18 months, we'll never find a good foil for Hogan. It's not about predicting whether or not a player is going to be a star. It's about at least giving them an opportunity. Weed hasn't had one. And it's stupid for fans to get on his back this early.

Get on Goody's back for playing him though. That's fair enough.

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

8 minutes ago, dino rover said:

Fair point I dobt even know how tall lever is

Carlisle is at the height

196 is more common

My point is the future is taller

195 I think?

heh. Carlisle sucks.

I don't know that that's true. Caleb Daniel is a jet... He doesn't even come up to my sternum. Midfielders have gotten way taller than when I was a kid. Pendles is the classic one. But I reckon Cripps will be a real statistical outlier.

I reckon it goes with the talent of the players, doesn't it? Stringer is better now and will probably end his career better than all these 2 metre guys like Lobb, Wright etc... Daniher probably has him beaten, and I daresay Moore will go down as an absolute champion...  Other than that though I'd take Stringer over almost all the 200cm guys.

But like I say, 200cm forward doesn't necessarily mean we HAVE to have a 200cm defender to stop them. Defenders have to be able to rebound as well. If all they do is shut out a bean pole, then that's a bit limiting. I reckon curtailing these guys is the right option... I like that our KP guys are good below their knees. Or at least good enough not to trip over their own feet. You can spoil a tall player without being massive yourself. Hunt's a good example of that. You get given a long rope when you're 10cm shorter than the guy you're up against.

[martin 727]

1. Jackson Trengove for me. Much cheaper, restricted free agent and can play defence, forward and ruck. Proven.

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

3 minutes ago, martin said:

1. Jackson Trengove for me. Much cheaper, restricted free agent and can play defence, forward and ruck. Proven.

Love him.

I don't reckon he's leaving though. Then again, I said that about Lever and now it seems the noise around him is getting bigger and bigger.

[Roger Mellie 3,487]

39 minutes ago, Watts the matter said:

Not how I remember it, started the season really well then dropped off and was playing really poorly. Had 1 or maybe 2 good games and suddenly was a surprise inclusion for the Hawthorn game where he played well (on a first gamer).

Since then has been extremely average to the extent that most supporters were impressed because he laid some tackles against Adelaide. 

He is young and has time on his side but with young players you look at their attributes and that's why some people (like myself) don't just assume he will be a good player because he was an early pick. Hipwood was taken in the same draft and is head and shoulders ahead of Weideman at this stage (also over 200m).

McCartin has clearly shown more at AFL level, has had many nearly moments. Weideman struggles to get involved.

 

Watching the Weed last weekend and the games he's played in the Ones, he looked to me to be suffering from 'Cant-kick-a-goal-itis.' He looked low (not devoid) on confidence and largely ineffectual. He was mostly in the right spots and laying tackles - trying to get all the little things right, but not hitting the scoreboard (other than points). IIRC, he hasn't kicked a goal for awhile and, for some, the longer it goes on for, the more confidence you lose. Last weekend it looked to be more of the same and I thought, we'll see a completely different player if he could just kick a goal. He finally did and I thought he played really well after kicking the goal. In fact, he kicked another and looked to have a much stronger impact on the game. My interpretation only. 

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

2 minutes ago, Roger Mellie said:

Watching the Weed last weekend and the games he's played in the Ones, he looked to me to be suffering from 'Cant-kick-a-goal-itis.' He looked low (not devoid) on confidence and largely ineffectual. He was mostly in the right spots and laying tackles - trying to get all the little things right, but not hitting the scoreboard (other than points). IIRC, he hasn't kicked a goal for awhile and, for some, the longer it goes on for, the more confidence you lose. Last weekend it looked to be more of the same and I thought, we'll see a completely different player if he could just kick a goal. He finally did and I thought he played really well after kicking the goal. In fact, he kicked another and looked to have a much stronger impact on the game. My interpretation only. 

Good post. This is the stuff of demonland. A bit of "maybe this is what he's thinking."

For the record too, I reckon Watts would have gone through whole months like that.

[Sir Why You Little 34,430]

3 hours ago, McQueen said:

I think the fact that in the article he's mentioned his partner has a fair say in the decision, you wouldn't be silly to think he's odds on to move back to Vic.

Girlfriends can often hold the whip...

[Bon appetit 23]

Maybe we could offer Adelaide Salem and our 2nd round pick.

[whatwhat say what 18,893]

3 minutes ago, Bon appetit said:

Maybe we could offer Adelaide Salem and our 2nd round pick.

Robbing Peter to pay Paul 

[daisycutter 28,485]

9 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Girlfriends can often hold the whip...

uncle bitters' certainly do 

[Lil_red_fire_engine 10,159]

On exposed form, playing on the third best forward most week's, Lever looks a jet. However can someone explain what our back 6 looks like next year with Lever? Also what they would be willing to trade. Then explain how that gets us closer to a flag. Find me a forward/ruck and quality ball carrying mids before we start throwing what we would have to to get a player that is a nice to have not must have.