POST MATCH DISCUSSION - Round 2

[Willmoy1947 3,765]

I was wondering why those Carlton players were crying after the game.....

[Demon Jack 6,273]

4 hours ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Here are ALL THE GOALS!

Someone heard the DL cries after only having the 'best' goals last week. On club website, now:

http://www.melbournefc.com.au/

Enjoy them all!

Can we just talk about and admire how Christian Salem outbodied Levi Casboult. I know no one is a big wrap for Levi, but if there is one thing he can do, it's mark a football.

[Lil_red_fire_engine 10,141]

19 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

Won the contest and 420 touches with a huge difference in uncontested ball. I thought we ran all over them in the first half except instead of going forward we got sucked in bouncing from side to side. I had no problem with the physical effort in the first half. The mental effort was not good, with so many making bad decisions regarding how and when to attack or be more conservative. 3rd quarter they had the wind and we were chasing tail pretty heavily. Signs were not good in that regard. But we found the reserves for the last and ran away with it.

Maybe I need to watch him off the ball but I thought Petracca was our best forward for most of the game and was routinely leading up to provide an option.

For much of the 2nd term the forwards got stuck in this negative feedback loop of leading - not rewarded due to over possession from the mids, followed by then not leading because the ball wasn't coming in quickly and then barely or not even crashing a poorly chosen long bomb. With better maturity and instruction I hope they keep the unrewarded running up and help drive the team to play better, but it's such a young group I get why they fall in to the trap. Credit to the forwards for a big role in the last quarter.

 

Petracca played lazy footy for 3 quarters then decided to have a dip in the last. 

[binman 37,870]

Watched the game 'as live' this morning from 7am. Succeeded in total information blackout until i saw a text from my crows supporting brother in law on the home page of my phone. Only read one word  before throwing my phone away -  the dees. Was he congratulating me on how great the dess were looking (unlikely) or winding me up about a loss (much more likely). So i approached the game with a high degree of trepidation. 

Some random thoughts:

• I though early on my predictions of a big win were going to be proven correct. We should have been 4 goals up after the first quarter with way we dominated possession
• Salem was unbelievable all game, but particularly in the first quarter. I love the time he has and his clean skills
• We could have barely butchered the ball more than we did in the fist 3 qs. Lewis was as bad as anyone (with eexception of tyson who had some shockers). Of the mids the only player who i can't recall making a huge turnover was Jones. 
• After quarter time Bolton went defensive (which i should have predicted) and clogged the game up. We struggled in the second and in particular the third to link up and penetrate our forward half. Good coaching, reminiscent of Roos in his first year at the dees with emphasis on defense first and minimising scoring. Aided by a good back half. The game after quarter time was played on their terms - even in the last
•  Watts did well in the last quarter when he went into the ruck - a point made by one of his biggest critics over the years, Leigh Matthews. Frustrated me big time at one point we he didn't mark a ball he should have and then redeemed himself just a few minutes later with a critical mark mark on half forward. Even if you are not not a Watts fan, hand on heart, is there any player at the dees you would rather have the ball if a critical kick need to be made (shot at goal or field kick)
• Our back six won us the game - and yes that includes OMac. I love the way Jetta plays and TMac was awesome
• Hogan has to do some work with a psychologist. His miss from dead in front 30 meters out in the last after a brilliant kick from Watts on his left was unforgivable, given the circumstances and continues a worrying trend of him missing critical goals (can you imagine Dunstall missing that goal? or Watts for that matter?). But his brain snap against Rowe was much, much worse. Deserved weeks and got them. Simply not good enough.
• Our last quarter was fantastic in so far as we willed ourselves to win. A six goal quarter where we barely could get flowing. Goodwin was effusive in his praise for their effort and said a a couple of times how proud he was. Thus was exactly the sort of win good footy sides pull out. We were down, played poorly, the opposition scrapped very hard and got ahead. Yet we found a way to win. Credit, again, must go to Goodwin.
• A loss here would have really set us back. A win - even an ugly one - keeps us moving forward
• Whilst it was indeed an ugly win the bookies had the line at 28 points. This is as reliable an indication of relative chance as any. We won by 22 points, so only a goal off the line. This should be factored into to any assessment of the merit or otherwise of the win 

[Binmans PA 25,921]

Thought it was interesting seeing both Lynden Dunn and James McDonald separately at the game yesterday.

Both still, I would guess, have a love for the club.

[binman 37,870]

I forgot a couple of random thoughts:

• I felt sick for most of the second half, dreading a loss with very fiber in my body - much to my kids amusement 
• Garlett was huge. His run down was of course brilliant but to go back and the kick the sealer from the outer edge of his range was clutch
• Weeds first goal was another glimpse into the future. I love his attack in the air 
• Maybe, in hindsight Gawn vs Kruezer is more akin to Winx vs Hartnell (noting of course that Winx beat Hartnell by 5 lengths at their last head to head - a blood good horse Hartnell, but Win is a once tow or three generation horse)

 

[CBDees 3,162]

10 hours ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Coaches votes:

10 Christian Salem (Melb)
8 Clayton Oliver (Melb)
3 Patrick Cripps (Carl)
3 Marc Murphy (Carl)
3 Matthew Wright (Carl)
2 Neville Jetta (Melb)
1 Nathan Jones (Melb)

Looks about right.

Delighted that Salem is beginning to make an impact and be recognised.

 

Edit:  Overall Lead:

18 Zach Merrett (Ess)
18 Ollie Wines (PA)
17 Clayton Oliver (Melb)

 

At the risk of reigniting the "Wines versus Toumpas" debate, so nice to see Clarry up the pointy end! ?

[Wells 11 4,673]

As much 

1 hour ago, CBDees said:

At the risk of reigniting the "Wines versus Toumpas" debate, so nice to see Clarry up the pointy end! ?

Salems game may have been his turning point. Olivers first game was his break out game lol...but its good to see him up the top end of votes so early in his career.

As much as I celebrated these two I was concerned in equal measure by Brayshaw and Hogan. They both looked awful. Low energy, simple mistakes. I think Hogan well might have been  carrying an injury, He went n for scans and was on crutches early in the week. So perhaps a couple of weeks off isnt the worst thing in the bigger picture for him. Its Brayshaw Im most concerned about. I used to have him as a critical member of our strongest team. Im not sure anymore. 

[Jaded No More 57,744]

Salem was always going to be an exceptional player once he got some consistency in his body.

So tough to be battling multiple injuries plus a health condition, while trying to get some good consistent footy into you. 

He has all the hallmarks of a top player; deadly kick, smart decision making, good speed, physically pretty strong for his size, good level of courage. I love having him do the kick outs! Finally someone who doesn't give me small seizures!

[Dante 2,562]

i think Carlton will be a much better side than given credit for, they do have some talent and I'm glad we went in to this game with the intent to win and wipe off another hoodoo and don't say it wasn't on the players minds.

Carlton will win games this year and may finish up mid table.

[DemonOX 8,529]

19 hours ago, A F said:

Thought it was interesting seeing both Lynden Dunn and James McDonald separately at the game yesterday.

Both still, I would guess, have a love for the club.

Don't think either of them wanted to leave the club. 

I still think Dunny would have been handy to have this season. 

[MT64 1,084]

On 4/3/2017 at 11:43 AM, old dee said:

Is it my imagination or did the crowd look three quarters Dees supporters

I agree. The majority of the ground was red & blue. Best turnout of Dees for a long time. Continue like this and I can only imagine the crowd for Queen's birthday weekend.

[bing181 8,151]

12 hours ago, Wells 11 said:

As much as I celebrated these two I was concerned in equal measure by Brayshaw and Hogan. They both looked awful.

I wish we had a team full of players as awful as Hogan with his 21 possessions and 10 marks. No, he didn't get any goals, but he created opportunities for others, and his work further up the ground was consistently strong.

[bing181 8,151]

2 hours ago, DemonOX said:

I still think Dunny would have been handy to have this season. 

Seeing he can't even get a game at the Pies, that's perhaps debatable.

[bringbackthebiff 637]

On 03/04/2017 at 9:32 AM, Dante said:

Last year before the draft there were calls for Salem to be traded because he wasn't up to it and couldn't get his hands on the ball, now it's Brayshaw's turn to cop it. It was a very poor day for skills yesterday, it was quite windy and blowing all over the place with no clear advantage to either end.

We won a por game and that's all that counts, Gus was ordinary yesterday but so was Viney, he made some dreadful decisions and was really interactive, do we want him back in the two's as well?

We overused the ball, that's a given, our skills were down, that's a given, we were out coached, that's a given, we won the game, that's a given too.

Just reading through some of the rubbish about brayshaw. Absolute nonsense, the boy will be a star. People forget (or don't understand) what confidence in sport is. It was really great to see him backing his skills - using both sides of the body depending on the situation. There will be some serious humble pie about him - same ones now praising Salem (who is also a gun!!)

[Skuit 9,120]

22 minutes ago, bringbackthebiff said:

Just reading through some of the rubbish about brayshaw. Absolute nonsense, the boy will be a star. People forget (or don't understand) what confidence in sport is. It was really great to see him backing his skills - using both sides of the body depending on the situation. There will be some serious humble pie about him - same ones now praising Salem (who is also a gun!!)

Welcome bringbackthebiff.

Do you think it is possible to believe Brayshaw will be a star at the same as thinking he could do with a run in the VFL? Primarily so that he can get his hands on the footy and regain some confidence?

[Pates 9,536]

4 hours ago, Skuit said:

Welcome bringbackthebiff.

Do you think it is possible to believe Brayshaw will be a star at the same as thinking he could do with a run in the VFL? Primarily so that he can get his hands on the footy and regain some confidence?

I don't think we're there yet. He had a good JLT (which is why it's a little surprising he's started the main year slow). If he puts in another poor game then I think a run in the VFL would be fair, if nothing else there needs to be sufficient competition for spots and we can't be gifting games to favourites. 

[Skuit 9,120]

2 minutes ago, Pates said:

I don't think we're there yet. He had a good JLT (which is why it's a little surprising he's started the main year slow). If he puts in another poor game then I think a run in the VFL would be fair, if nothing else there needs to be sufficient competition for spots and we can't be gifting games to favourites. 

Do you not think Kent could potentially provide greater potency in the half-forward role Gus is currently occupying with bursts up the wing and in the middle? Gus isn't quite right at the moment and we've seen it before - whether it's the continual head-knocks or whatnot putting him off his game - but if we don't acknowledge that we're already playing favourites. It's getting difficult to comment on a player's form around here without people extrapolating that as a criticism of a player and his potential.

[Pates 9,536]

2 hours ago, Skuit said:

Do you not think Kent could potentially provide greater potency in the half-forward role Gus is currently occupying with bursts up the wing and in the middle? Gus isn't quite right at the moment and we've seen it before - whether it's the continual head-knocks or whatnot putting him off his game - but if we don't acknowledge that we're already playing favourites. It's getting difficult to comment on a player's form around here without people extrapolating that as a criticism of a player and his potential.

I actually wouldn't be against that. In fact I think Kent is more suited to that area of the ground than Gus, I think that's partly the issue with him that he's not in a role that suits his natural abilities. I'm not sure how Kent has performed in the last couple of weeks but if he's consistently been in the best then reward for form should come his way.

[Skuit 9,120]

1 hour ago, Pates said:

I actually wouldn't be against that. In fact I think Kent is more suited to that area of the ground than Gus, I think that's partly the issue with him that he's not in a role that suits his natural abilities. I'm not sure how Kent has performed in the last couple of weeks but if he's consistently been in the best then reward for form should come his way.

Going by Plapp's report, Kent is ready to roll. I honestly can't recall Brayshaw's input at the end of last season, but according to his stats at least, he was averaging a sluggish 11 possessions per game at the start of the season, and then 20-odd after his return (I do remember him racking them up at some stage in the VFL though prior to his come-back). Still, he currently seems a contested and delivery shadow of his first season. Get him in the guts now, even if it's a tagging role, or let him find some touch at Casey.

[bringbackthebiff 637]

9 hours ago, Skuit said:

Welcome bringbackthebiff.

Do you think it is possible to believe Brayshaw will be a star at the same as thinking he could do with a run in the VFL? Primarily so that he can get his hands on the footy and regain some confidence?

It's a good question. Being a gun junior midfielder this new role will probably take some time to adjust to and is important to the teams development. Going back to the 2's and getting a heap of it in the midfield isn't really going to assist with this role (in my opinion). He is a smart footballer that is always looking for good options, stats will not always show this. I love it when he backs his ability even if it results in a mistake. Last thing you want a talented junior to go into his shell. Unfortunately the result of that is they become a timid senior players. Grimes for me is a good example - talented junior that didn't expand his game (mainly due to circumstances at the time) and the result was a career below his potential. 

[old55 21,225]

2 minutes ago, bringbackthebiff said:

It's a good question. Being a gun junior midfielder this new role will probably take some time to adjust to and is important to the teams development. Going back to the 2's and getting a heap of it in the midfield isn't really going to assist with this role (in my opinion). He is a smart footballer that is always looking for good options, stats will not always show this. I love it when he backs his ability even if it results in a mistake. Last thing you want a talented junior to go into his shell. Unfortunately the result of that is they become a timid senior players. Grimes for me is a good example - talented junior that didn't expand his game (mainly due to circumstances at the time) and the result was a career below his potential. 

I rate Brayshaw but disagree.  I think he can work on his main game at Casey as #1 midfielder to Spencer in the ruck.  That's the role he's going to end up playing at AFL level.

On the other hand, for example, Oscar won't benefit playing at Casey, the back 6 or 7 need to play together at AFL level to develop the cohesion necessary.

[Skuit 9,120]

3 minutes ago, bringbackthebiff said:

It's a good question. Being a gun junior midfielder this new role will probably take some time to adjust to and is important to the teams development. Going back to the 2's and getting a heap of it in the midfield isn't really going to assist with this role (in my opinion). He is a smart footballer that is always looking for good options, stats will not always show this. I love it when he backs his ability even if it results in a mistake. Last thing you want a talented junior to go into his shell. Unfortunately the result of that is they become a timid senior players. Grimes for me is a good example - talented junior that didn't expand his game (mainly due to circumstances at the time) and the result was a career below his potential. 

Maybe if in this era of hectic football players and supporters would get past the 'ignominy' of being dropped and saw it as team management or the opportunity to practise certain aspects of a game without the pressure of top-flight football. It would help if the AFL started handing out premiership medallions to contributors over the course of a season. But I digress - unless Gus is earmarked for a future in the forward-line, him being there isn't a important to our team development, but getting a heap of it in the seconds may well be. 

[bringbackthebiff 637]

14 minutes ago, Fifty-5 said:

I rate Brayshaw but disagree.  I think he can work on his main game at Casey as #1 midfielder to Spencer in the ruck.  That's the role he's going to end up playing at AFL level.

On the other hand, for example, Oscar won't benefit playing at Casey, the back 6 or 7 need to play together at AFL level to develop the cohesion necessary.

Fair call and don't disagree - the midfield is where he will end up. For me its important that a young group of guys play together and learn each other's quirks. Ultimately I think Salem is also going to be a very polished midfielder - however thankfully it's tough for spots. I think playing in different positions and rotating through midfield is big picture stuff