POST MATCH DISCUSSION - Round 2

[Brayshaws' Helmet 143]

9 minutes ago, A F said:

How was that spoil from Jetta on Casboult? Ridiculously good. Shows he'll stand up just fine in a zone when playing on a much larger opponent. Love that he's taking the game on more now too. 

What about hip and shouldering kruz to the ground in the last. Nev has been one of our most underrated for a while now, he just keeps going on and going on

[Gipsy Danger 1,067]

5 hours ago, olisik said:

Shocking game by Viney and Brayshaw.

Time to get Trenners in

So you can add his name to that list?

[Demon Dynasty 15,203]

7 minutes ago, Deelirium said:

What about hip and shouldering kruz to the ground in the last. Nev has been one of our most underrated for a while now, he just keeps going on and going on

Very consistent and one of the best at working his opponent away from or under the ball. Would just like to see him gradually add another string to his bow from here and start showing a little more run off his opponent/s occasionaly and taking the opponent game on a little more. Easy to say of course.

[RalphiusMaximus 5,993]

So that was very nearly a repeat of last year.  Carlton flooded back, crowded our forward 50 and managed to drag us down to their level.  They also got away with murder from the umpires.  I lost count of the number of clear one-handed throws their inside mids dished off.  I'm very surprised to see that we won the free kick count. 

Also very happy to see that our three players with 30+ disposals were all youngsters.  Just shows the quality and depth we've developed in the midfield that we can have our senior leaders taken out of the game and there's still enough there to get the job done.  Lewis copped a hard tag and in his own words just tried to do the team things rather than win the ball himself (he openly admitted that he had no chance of outrunning his tagger, so didn't blow himself up trying).  Awesome to see Salem play with such authority.  It seems like we have a bunch of young mids who are now finding their feet at the level at about the same time. That's going to result in a more pronounced improvement in the team than I had anticipated, so I'm really looking forward to seeing what they can do for the rest of the year. 

[ding 5,126]

3 hours ago, ProDee said:

Sometimes these wins are the making of a club.  When another club knows they can beat you and you know they can beat you it's not easy to come out on top if they're in the game for long enough.

I didn't want them to kick more than 10 goals and they kicked 9.  I wanted to score more than 100 points and we didn't = X

Our game-plan and ball movement is still a work in progress.

Fact: we were younger and less experienced than them

Fact: we we the youngest team of the 18 in round 2

Fact: we were the second least experienced from a games played perspective to Gold Coast

Fact: we had 12 players with less than 50 games.  No other club in the round had more than 10

Yeah, you were close Pro, but i was closer lol

Even though the margin was much less than many predicted, i was still happy with the way we finished it off. Not that many rounds back we would have folded like a deck of cards and lost by as much, or even more than we won by today. Lots of work to be done, but if you look at our age profile you cant help but feel a bit hopeful of what we can do in the coming few years.

Next week will be most interesting.

[rpfc 27,391]

Thought Bolton out coached us and they will trouble sides this year. The forward line setting up with 4 blokes always worries me because it means you are telling mids to avoid being direct when we get first use. Thought we could play man-on-man against an inferior opponent...

They soaked up, flooded, and countered and we weren't ready to run back today. Salem, Jetta, and T Mac great.

Missed Vince. Lewis precise but not prominent. All the kids were frenetic and fumbly...

Tyson was a calming influence. Really thought he turned it with Garlett and a couple others.

Worst 35 touch game Oliver has played in a while...

So glad I came down to see that live...?

[bing181 8,149]

2 points to add to all that:

- not enough respect for Stretch. 2nd game in a row with over 20 possessions, a few clearances, a few tackles. Nothing remarkable, but playing his role well and consistently, and whenever he gets the ball generally does something with it.

- we need Vince. An older head, and gives us a lot of drive off half-back.

[Binmans PA 25,894]

5 hours ago, stevethemanjordan said:

Mistake central.

Jones, Salem and T-Mac really solid and Garlett inspiring.

Tyson didn't need to come in as I said. 80% mistakes, his man beat him to the contest most times. Makes us look slower.

O-Mac will go straight out for Frost when Frost is ready. 

Happy to get a win out of a performance like that.

Let's actually show up with some smarts and skills against Geelong though.

Otherwise #187 here we go 

I'm gonna have another bite at this too, Steve. Not only is the Tyson call still a shocker, Omac was solid today and was part of a defence that only allowed 9 goals, despite multiple forward entries conceded by the midfield.

And your third rubbish call is the #187. That 186 game was against a team of champions and our team putting up a protest against the admin at the time. 2017 Geelong are decidedly beatable if you rough up Dangerfield (welcome back, Bernie) and keep Selwood quiet. 

5 hours ago, Age said:

Before the free game today fox footy showed that we have youngest list with also the second least games experience wise. If we can keep developing there could be good things ahead. All I took out of today was that we managed to grind out the win instead of me walking away hating the team after losing another game. 

The 'Baby Demons'?  

[Brayshaws' Helmet 143]

10 minutes ago, Rusty Nails said:

Very consistent and one of the best at working his opponent away from or under the ball. Would just like to see him gradually add another string to his bow from here and start showing a little more run off his opponent/s occasionaly and taking the opponent game on a little more. Easy to say of course.

I know what you mean, but at the moment I think he's playing the undersized lock down defender pretty well and has been doing it for a while, with some pundits on tv putting him in the small defender AA team conversation (couple years ago?). I guess it's all about what you value, he does rebound when he can but he's also an in and under tough man on man defender. Even beating Levi in the air today a couple times.

IMO just let him keep doing what he's doing

[Binmans PA 25,894]

5 hours ago, Akum said:

Not at all. I didn't think we ever looked lazy, we looked more panicked & frenetic & pressured.

And we couldn't figure out or anticipate what they were trying to do, which was an extra defender or two and then use width to attack as we drop off them.

Confused, yes, but never lazy, I thought we gave it everything the whole game. We needed that bit of class in that last quarter.

Did you see Christian Petracca's game, mate? He was jogging for most of the first three quarters. Took some good marks, but his work rate was about 50% off where it needs to be.

He wasn't the only forward lacking intensity and exhibiting laziness. Our half forwards were at fault for our inability to keep the ball in our forward half for the first three quarters. ANB laid a few tackles, but Hannan could hardly get near it. I reckon Hannan's spot in the team is under the most threat. Hogan being rubbed out might save him. Be interesting to see what the FD say about Watts' game. He was involved in a lot of our scoring, but he was incredibly soft in the contest and lost his footing far too easily. If they're serious about making him learn, I'd give him the week off next week, but with Hogan being rubbed out (most likely), Watts may get a reprieve, unless Kent takes his spot and we go small and fast.

5 hours ago, Deelirium said:

Agreed, never thought they looked lazy, definitely tried all day, you could see some players running with nothing left in the tank in the last. It wasn't a great win by any means, but it's the emergence of a more competitive team.

i think the panic is because they expected to win, and lost control. At least they came over the top outplayed them in 3 quarters. More polish in some areas, but just played better overall. Deserved the win, has everyone forgot the first half?

It seems we disagree, but I thought they smashed us on the spread in the third term in particular.

5 hours ago, olisik said:

Anyone else concerned about Brayshaw?

Unfortunately, yes. Needs to lift big time. Hopefully he gets a chance next week to get involved. Otherwise, it might be back to the 2's to get some touch.

5 hours ago, Hell Bent said:

Good teams win when they play like shyte. We'll take the win, plenty to work on still.

Garletts brilliant run down tackle and goal one of the very few highlights, it was just awesome with the game on the line.

 

What I find the most interesting/exciting is that even though we failed to bring the required work rate for close to half a match, we still managed to win. When was the last time we could say that? We have a greater margin for error now, which is great.

[SaberFang 7,141]

I'm glad we won but, geez, today's obsession with endless handballs in circles to teammates under pressure, until an inevitable turnover, nearly did my f***ing head in. Especially when, time and time again, we saw Carlton breaking the lines with kicking chains from D50 to F50 in the space of 2 kicks.

Definitely a case of another team bringing us down to their level (identical to Brisbane last year) but ultimately our list is still young and they need to learn how opposition coaches will strategise against us when they don't have the cattle to match us; this only comes from experience.

The obvious positive is that we are still winning these ugly games!

Edited April 2, 2017 by SaberFang

[DeeSpencer 23,058]

4 minutes ago, A F said:

Did you see Christian Petracca's game, mate? He was jogging for most of the first three quarters. Took some good marks, but his work rate was about 50% off where it needs to be.

He wasn't the only forward lacking intensity and exhibiting laziness. Our half forwards were at fault for our inability to keep the ball in our forward half for the first three quarters. ANB laid a few tackles, but Hannan could hardly get near it. I reckon Hannan's spot in the team is under the most threat. Hogan being rubbed out might save him. Be interesting to see what the FD say about Watts' game. He was involved in a lot of our scoring, but he was incredibly soft in the contest and lost his footing far too easily. If they're serious about making him learn, I'd give him the week off next week, but with Hogan being rubbed out (most likely), Watts may get a reprieve, unless Kent takes his spot and we go small and fast.

It seems we disagree, but I thought they smashed us on the spread in the third term in particular.

Unfortunately, yes. Needs to lift big time. Hopefully he gets a chance next week to get involved. Otherwise, it might be back to the 2's to get some touch.

What I find the most interesting/exciting is that even though we failed to bring the required work rate for close to half a match, we still managed to win. When was the last time we could say that? We have a greater margin for error now, which is great.

Won the contest and 420 touches with a huge difference in uncontested ball. I thought we ran all over them in the first half except instead of going forward we got sucked in bouncing from side to side. I had no problem with the physical effort in the first half. The mental effort was not good, with so many making bad decisions regarding how and when to attack or be more conservative. 3rd quarter they had the wind and we were chasing tail pretty heavily. Signs were not good in that regard. But we found the reserves for the last and ran away with it.

Maybe I need to watch him off the ball but I thought Petracca was our best forward for most of the game and was routinely leading up to provide an option.

For much of the 2nd term the forwards got stuck in this negative feedback loop of leading - not rewarded due to over possession from the mids, followed by then not leading because the ball wasn't coming in quickly and then barely or not even crashing a poorly chosen long bomb. With better maturity and instruction I hope they keep the unrewarded running up and help drive the team to play better, but it's such a young group I get why they fall in to the trap. Credit to the forwards for a big role in the last quarter.

 

[Binmans PA 25,894]

5 hours ago, DemonAndrew said:

Brayshaw is miles off being an afl player.

Can't win the ball and turns it over when he gets it - very disappointed in his ability / development.

I don't think half forward is his go. But it needs to be for team flexibility. He has struggled every time playing half forward though. Last week he got a pass mark, because he brought the required tackling pressure and got into the contest quickly. 

I'd look at getting him on a wing or half back next week and seeing if he can get a bit more of it.

[whatwhat say what 18,788]

4 minutes ago, A F said:

I don't think half forward is his go. But it needs to be for team flexibility. He has struggled every time playing half forward though. Last week he got a pass mark, because he brought the required tackling pressure and got into the contest quickly. 

I'd look at getting him on a wing or half back next week and seeing if he can get a bit more of it.

I wouldn't play him off the back flank with his lack of kicking ability personally 

[Binmans PA 25,894]

7 minutes ago, DemonAndrew said:

I wouldn't play him off the back flank with his lack of kicking ability personally 

He's a beautiful kick when he's confident and free flowing. It's the dinky short kicks that bring him unstuck at times IMO.

[Binmans PA 25,894]

4 hours ago, dees189227 said:

I thought today Tommy Mac's kicking was pretty good and has improved over the off season. He did some nice long accurate passes today. 

Watts just needs to learn he can stretch the hands out to mark the ball, not always have to take it on the chest. 

But can I say Neville Jetta he was fantastic today. Just goes back into packs and uses the ball well. A credit to him and his hard work. 

Maybe our female team can teach the men's team on how to stick your tackles, we missed a few today. 

Also what a great crowd today. Loved the noise. 

Also on a side note does anyone else think out women's team deserved better in regards to there best and fairest? They had it at the game today in one of the rooms. I get that at 1/2 time they did a lap but surely they deserve there own night and time to have it. 

I reckon Tommy's kicking has improved, because he has movement up the field, making the target easier and less contested. This always helps.

[deelete my account 1,194]

 

58 minutes ago, A F said:

He wasn't the only forward lacking intensity and exhibiting laziness. Our half forwards were at fault for our inability to keep the ball in our forward half for the first three quarters. ANB laid a few tackles, but Hannan could hardly get near it. I reckon Hannan's spot in the team is under the most threat. Hogan being rubbed out might save him. Be interesting to see what the FD say about Watts' game. He was involved in a lot of our scoring, but he was incredibly soft in the contest and lost his footing far too easily. If they're serious about making him learn, I'd give him the week off next week, but with Hogan being rubbed out (most likely), Watts may get a reprieve, unless Kent takes his spot and we go small and fast.

Watts was massive in the last quarter. Became a linebreaker with his marks and disposals on the wing. His class really helped shut down any chance of a Carlton win when he moved up into the midfield. No chance he is dropped. Watts shirked a contest against St Kilda last week on HB too. While it's not ideal, i do think its part and parcel with the habits he's formed over the years and reducing the rate is a far more realistic goal than dropping him so he can eliminate it from his game. 

As for Mitch Hannan. Even though he made infrequent appearances, i did notice that he really does impact each contest in a big way. His marking attempts are spectacular but were quite valuable in bringing the ball to ground and he hits each contest with a huge amount of speed and aggression. One of those players that will hopefully turn into a Puopolo style player that impacts a match with 2 or 3 freakish plays when needed. I'd give him one more week, but wouldn't mind seeing him moved out for Kent. 

Edited April 2, 2017 by DominatrixTyson

[Binmans PA 25,894]

3 hours ago, ILLDieADemon said:

It would have been boring to watch if we won it easily. 

We would have rolled over in the third and lost that game last year so good on the boys to keep at it and come away with a win. 

It certainly wouldn't have been boring to watch us smash a team, but it does give us great perspective going into the Geelong match next week.

Our bad is still really bad and will lose to anyone. We can't afford to take anyone lightly.

Against Geelong, we know that we must bring high intensity pressure, don't overuse the ball and hit targets by lowering the eyes.

In some ways, today's game is blessing. 

3 hours ago, Stretch Johnson said:

Yup.

I think we were outcoached today.  

Couldn't break from the contest forward with any speed and over possessed the footy. Carlton got numbers back and we did not enter the 50 consistently with any conviction.

Still we found a way.

It'll be interesting to see how we counter the opposition playing multiple defenders in our forward fifty. We didn't deal with it well today. Having 9 off the back of our defensive 50 doesn't help if we're simply bombing it long to opposition defenders waiting in numbers.

We need to be a lot cleverer with ball in hand. Our forwards need to be cleverer with where they lead and our coaching panel needs to have a plan B that still allows us to maintain an attacking edge in the centre square, but ensures we won't squander inside 50s by turning it over blasting long to no one.

[Binmans PA 25,894]

1 hour ago, Deelirium said:

What about hip and shouldering kruz to the ground in the last. Nev has been one of our most underrated for a while now, he just keeps going on and going on

Gun.

1 hour ago, RalphiusMaximus said:

So that was very nearly a repeat of last year.  Carlton flooded back, crowded our forward 50 and managed to drag us down to their level.  They also got away with murder from the umpires.  I lost count of the number of clear one-handed throws their inside mids dished off.  I'm very surprised to see that we won the free kick count. 

Also very happy to see that our three players with 30+ disposals were all youngsters.  Just shows the quality and depth we've developed in the midfield that we can have our senior leaders taken out of the game and there's still enough there to get the job done.  Lewis copped a hard tag and in his own words just tried to do the team things rather than win the ball himself (he openly admitted that he had no chance of outrunning his tagger, so didn't blow himself up trying).  Awesome to see Salem play with such authority.  It seems like we have a bunch of young mids who are now finding their feet at the level at about the same time. That's going to result in a more pronounced improvement in the team than I had anticipated, so I'm really looking forward to seeing what they can do for the rest of the year. 

I think our midfield will be highly rated come the end of 2017. You're spot on, RM. The kids are hitting their AFL straps together as it were. I still remember the years where we barely had a player get 30 touches. Now we're having multiple players gather 30+ a week. They're not all cheapies in the vein of a Dal Santo or Gibbs either. 

1 hour ago, rpfc said:

Thought Bolton out coached us and they will trouble sides this year. The forward line setting up with 4 blokes always worries me because it means you are telling mids to avoid being direct when we get first use. Thought we could play man-on-man against an inferior opponent...

They soaked up, flooded, and countered and we weren't ready to run back today. Salem, Jetta, and T Mac great.

Missed Vince. Lewis precise but not prominent. All the kids were frenetic and fumbly...

Tyson was a calming influence. Really thought he turned it with Garlett and a couple others.

Worst 35 touch game Oliver has played in a while...

So glad I came down to see that live...?

Glad you got to see a win though, mate.

1 hour ago, bing181 said:

2 points to add to all that:

- not enough respect for Stretch. 2nd game in a row with over 20 possessions, a few clearances, a few tackles. Nothing remarkable, but playing his role well and consistently, and whenever he gets the ball generally does something with it.

- we need Vince. An older head, and gives us a lot of drive off half-back.

Agreed. Stretch rarely makes a mistake. It's just that turning circle of his that worries me.

We certainly missed Vince's long kicking. You realise how important it is when it's unavailable to you.

1 hour ago, Deelirium said:

I know what you mean, but at the moment I think he's playing the undersized lock down defender pretty well and has been doing it for a while, with some pundits on tv putting him in the small defender AA team conversation (couple years ago?). I guess it's all about what you value, he does rebound when he can but he's also an in and under tough man on man defender. Even beating Levi in the air today a couple times.

IMO just let him keep doing what he's doing

On the contrary, I think Jets has really improved his rebound and offensive game. He could still do more offensively, but he wins almost every 1-on-1 every game. One of my absolute favourites. Seems like a great guy too. 

I remember reading something on Demonland years ago from Jetta's mother or was it grandmother? She'd apparently said something to the effect that our Jetta was nowhere near as good as Lewis. Well, I'd say he's surpassed his cousin and is currently twice the player. A terrific credit to Nev. 

1 hour ago, SaberFang said:

I'm glad we won but, geez, today's obsession with endless handballs in circles to teammates under pressure, until an inevitable turnover, nearly did my f***ing head in. Especially when, time and time again, we saw Carlton breaking the lines with kicking chains from D50 to F50 in the space of 2 kicks.

Definitely a case of another team bringing us down to their level (identical to Brisbane last year) but ultimately our list is still young and they need to learn how opposition coaches will strategise against us when they don't have the cattle to match us; this only comes from experience.

The obvious positive is that we are still winning these ugly games!

Great post, mate. Wanted to like it but have run out of 'likes' for the day!

1 hour ago, DeeSpencer said:

Won the contest and 420 touches with a huge difference in uncontested ball. I thought we ran all over them in the first half except instead of going forward we got sucked in bouncing from side to side. I had no problem with the physical effort in the first half. The mental effort was not good, with so many making bad decisions regarding how and when to attack or be more conservative. 3rd quarter they had the wind and we were chasing tail pretty heavily. Signs were not good in that regard. But we found the reserves for the last and ran away with it.

Maybe I need to watch him off the ball but I thought Petracca was our best forward for most of the game and was routinely leading up to provide an option.

For much of the 2nd term the forwards got stuck in this negative feedback loop of leading - not rewarded due to over possession from the mids, followed by then not leading because the ball wasn't coming in quickly and then barely or not even crashing a poorly chosen long bomb. With better maturity and instruction I hope they keep the unrewarded running up and help drive the team to play better, but it's such a young group I get why they fall in to the trap. Credit to the forwards for a big role in the last quarter.

It was when we didn't have the ball that Petracca was jogging around. I agree that we dominated large patches of the game, but we couldn't put it on the scoreboard because:

1) our mids didn't use the ball well going inside 50.

2) when the ball was inside 50, our forwards failed to lead to the right place and keep the ball in with their tackling - essentially, the Carlton transition was too easy.

I'm not saying Petracca does this every week. I'm just saying he certainly did it today.

49 minutes ago, DominatrixTyson said:

 

Watts was massive in the last quarter. Became a linebreaker with his marks and disposals on the wing. His class really helped shut down any chance of a Carlton win when he moved up into the midfield. No chance he is dropped. Watts shirked a contest against St Kilda last week on HB too. While it's not ideal, i do think its part and parcel with the habits he's formed over the years and reducing the rate is a far more realistic goal than dropping him so he can eliminate it from his game. 

As for Mitch Hannan. Even though he made infrequent appearances, i did notice that he really does impact each contest in a big way. His marking attempts are spectacular but were quite valuable in bringing the ball to ground and he hits each contest with a huge amount of speed and aggression. One of those players that will hopefully turn into a Puopolo style player that impacts a match with 2 or 3 freakish plays when needed. I'd give him one more week, but wouldn't mind seeing him moved out for Kent. 

You're probably right RE: Watts, DT. Good post.

If Hannan stays in next week, I'd go Kent for ANB eventually. ANB isn't quick enough for our forward press, whereas this is Kent's strength. 

[RalphiusMaximus 5,993]

24 minutes ago, A F said:

I remember reading something on Demonland years ago from Jetta's mother or was it grandmother? She'd apparently said something to the effect that our Jetta was nowhere near as good as Lewis. Well, I'd say he's surpassed his cousin and is currently twice the player. A terrific credit to Nev.

I tend to think that Nev is probably the least naturally talented of the AFL Jettas, but he is by far the most professional and hardest working.  That's the reason he's so highly regarded within the club.  He has the work ethic and discipline that his cousins lack. 

[Demon trucker 1,729]

Gee we must of lost,last week tracc   played  well gus played well,  This week tracc played alright not a bad game, Gus had a bad game now he's no good and won't make it,  it's just BS!!!! There are so many whinges 

[CBDees 3,162]

9 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

I remember last year i said that his disposal was quite poor and got howled down for it. He was simply poor by foot today. Do we continue to back him in and gift him games??

Sometimes he reminds me of Jack Trengove the way he plods around too. 

Those stats are not pretty.

Maybe we should look at stats of Brayshaw versus Trengove?

[John Crow Batty 8,222]

Carlton Coach Bolton was not happy after the game. Very Neeldesque.

Edited April 2, 2017 by america de cali

[Salems Lot 2,355]

6 hours ago, A F said:

It certainly wouldn't have been boring to watch us smash a team, but it does give us great perspective going into the Geelong match next week.

Our bad is still really bad and will lose to anyone. Sorry AF but clearly we don't lose to "anyone" since we played poorly yesterday and still wonWe can't afford to take anyone lightly.

Against Geelong, we know that we must bring high intensity pressure, don't overuse the ball and hit targets by lowering the eyes.

In some ways, today's game is blessing. 

It'll be interesting to see how we counter the opposition playing multiple defenders in our forward fifty. We didn't deal with it well today. Having 9 off the back of our defensive 50 doesn't help if we're simply bombing it long to opposition defenders waiting in numbers.

We need to be a lot cleverer with ball in hand. Our forwards need to be cleverer with where they lead and our coaching panel needs to have a plan B that still allows us to maintain an attacking edge in the centre square, but ensures we won't squander inside 50s by turning it over blasting long to no one.

 

[CBDees 3,162]

224 posts and I am surprised that no Demonlanders have referred to the ultimate irony inherent in this win over Carlton, namely the fact that we secured our undisputed match winner in Garlett as a result of his being jettisoned from the Blues. If Garlett had of still been on their list instead of ours, the result would have been massively (6 goals) different, the freakish three goals he snapped for us (plus his goal assists) and the three that he didn't kick for Carlton! In Jason Taylor we trust!