Changes for Round 2 v Carlton

[binman 37,953]

51 minutes ago, stevethemanjordan said:

 

For whatever reason, you're choosing to ignore the FACT that we have little alternative. Who out of our healthy list is challenging for that second key defender role?

Nobody is your answer. 

You're right only in that Goody will continue to play Oscar at present regardless of the fact that he is underperforming because of what I have previously said. Unless of course he plays as he did on the weekend for the next few weeks, in which case Goody and the FD may find that they have no choice but to drop him.

I don't understand why it's so hard for some supporters to see that positionally speaking, some players are given more leniency in regards to game-day performance simply because there is a lack of depth in that particular line. (Backline in this case).

This is exactly what we're seeing atm. We saw it a few years ago with our midfield. Players were getting games because of a lack of depth and talent. And now we're seeing it with our key backs. 

Why is it so difficult to see this?

 

What is FACT is that you stated that Omac is not up to the required standard.

For the sake of the argument lets say Goodwin agrees with your assessment of OMac. If that were the case goodwin could have instead selected either keilty (who played Omac's role very successfully for much of last year) or pederson, who has lost 10kgs in order, in his words, to be come more mobile. Pederson is an experienced AFL player who is fit and has played CHB before.  This was must win game - as both Bernie and Lewis (and any number of commentators) said post game a potential 8 point game that could well set up our season. Are you honestly saying Goodwin would, in these circumstances, pick a player not up to AFL standard?

What is fact is that since being first selected by Roos (and Goodwin who would have had a major say in selection last year) OMac has not been dropped once. What is also fact is that he was selected in all 3 of the JLT games, games in which Goodwin made it clear he was picking his best 22.

Goodwin had the the opoportunity to give someone else a chance in the JLT and didn't. What was interesting in this regard is that he elected to bring in Hannan and jetta, who didn't play JLT, showing he was prepared to drop players. And he didn't drop OMac. 

What is fact is Omac continues to be selected every week, suggesting he is a lock for best 22. it also suggests Goodwin does not agree with your assessment that Omac is not up to the required standard.

To be honest STMJ i think you are confusing FACT and SUPPOSITION.

[mo64 5,209]

30 minutes ago, Satyriconhome said:

Interestingly Simon Goodwin seems to think Omac is AFL standard, so does Macca, let me think, those 2 or your opinion on Omac

Contrary to what a few of us on Dland thought, Garland was getting games in 2015 and at the start of 2016. Roos and the FD finally woke up that he wasn't playing at AFL standard and banished him to the VFL. By that stage his confidence was shot.

BTW, I think that O Mac will eventually make it, but I'd rather see him learn his craft at VFL level, and not have the same thing happen to him, that happened to Garland.

Coaches and their assistants don't always get things right. Some coaches have their pet players, and a new coach comes in and banishes them to the VFL. Which coach was right, and which was wrong?

 

[Dwight Schrute 16,749]

55 minutes ago, Satyriconhome said:

Interestingly Simon Goodwin seems to think Omac is AFL standard, so does Macca, let me think, those 2 or your opinion on Omac

This isn't to say he doesn't need to improve or some aspects of his game arent frustrating, clearly what you mean is they think he is worth persisting with, despite some frustrations from supporters which are probably fair enough in some cases. 

I think saty sometimes you ignore what are fair criticisms of players by being a bit to bias. 

Oscar is young and will be good but is clearly not perfect 

[Stretch Johnson 2,568]

17 minutes ago, Abe said:

This isn't to say he doesn't need to improve or some aspects of his game arent frustrating, clearly what you mean is they think he is worth persisting with, despite some frustrations from supporters which are probably fair enough in some cases. 

I think saty sometimes you ignore what are fair criticisms of players by being a bit to bias. 

Oscar is young and will be good but is clearly not perfect 

I agree with this.

Other than the slowness with the decision making and disposal he is at an awkward stage.

He is not quick or agile enough to play on athletic talls, he is not strong enough to play on the gorilla types (an endangered species anyway),

Edited March 28, 2017 by Stretch Johnson

[Binmans PA 25,993]

49 minutes ago, binman said:

What is FACT is that you stated that Omac is not up to the required standard.

For the sake of the argument lets say Goodwin agrees with your assessment of OMac. If that were the case goodwin could have instead selected either keilty (who played Omac's role very successfully for much of last year) or pederson, who has lost 10kgs in order, in his words, to be come more mobile. Pederson is an experienced AFL player who is fit and has played CHB before.  This was must win game - as both Bernie and Lewis (and any number of commentators) said post game a potential 8 point game that could well set up our season. Are you honestly saying Goodwin would, in these circumstances, pick a player not up to AFL standard?

What is fact is that since being first selected by Roos (and Goodwin who would have had a major say in selection last year) OMac has not been dropped once. What is also fact is that he was selected in all 3 of the JLT games, games in which Goodwin made it clear he was picking his best 22.

Goodwin had the the opoportunity to give someone else a chance in the JLT and didn't. What was interesting in this regard is that he elected to bring in Hannan and jetta, who didn't play JLT, showing he was prepared to drop players. And he didn't drop OMac. 

What is fact is Omac continues to be selected every week, suggesting he is a lock for best 22. it also suggests Goodwin does not agree with your assessment that Omac is not up to the required standard.

To be honest STMJ i think you are confusing FACT and SUPPOSITION.

Omac reminds me very much of a young Frawley and even Tommy too.

Watching Frawley's development I no longer question our coaches when they continue to play young KPDs. Clearly they see something that many others don't, particularly from the outside looking in, and I'd speculate that they value getting games into him and improving his decision making as the number one goal for developing our backline into the future.

Getting more games into Oscar and allowing him to get used to the zone defence is vital going forward IMO. He's not getting so clearly beaten week in, week out that he's droppable and as you say bin, it appears Goodwin agrees with this line of thinking. 

[Billy 1,958]

On 26/03/2017 at 8:04 AM, stevethemanjordan said:

Oscar for anyone.

No Tyson until one of our mids have a poor game and Tyson has a belter in the VFL.

There is absolutely no need for him to come into our side right now. 

Tyson had 16 inside 50s for Casey, that's a belter!

Tyson for Silly Bernie

Pedo for Smith

So Oscars our fall guy this year is he? He stays.

Running out of options in the backline which is a bit of a worry.

[ickey_11 145]

I would like to see:

Spencer come in for Smith and play ruck/forward, Watts to take Smith's role in the backline;

Tyson in for Vince.

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

1 hour ago, binman said:

What is FACT is that you stated that Omac is not up to the required standard.

For the sake of the argument lets say Goodwin agrees with your assessment of OMac. If that were the case goodwin could have instead selected either keilty (who played Omac's role very successfully for much of last year) or pederson, who has lost 10kgs in order, in his words, to be come more mobile. Pederson is an experienced AFL player who is fit and has played CHB before.  This was must win game - as both Bernie and Lewis (and any number of commentators) said post game a potential 8 point game that could well set up our season. Are you honestly saying Goodwin would, in these circumstances, pick a player not up to AFL standard?

What is fact is that since being first selected by Roos (and Goodwin who would have had a major say in selection last year) OMac has not been dropped once. What is also fact is that he was selected in all 3 of the JLT games, games in which Goodwin made it clear he was picking his best 22.

Goodwin had the the opoportunity to give someone else a chance in the JLT and didn't. What was interesting in this regard is that he elected to bring in Hannan and jetta, who didn't play JLT, showing he was prepared to drop players. And he didn't drop OMac. 

What is fact is Omac continues to be selected every week, suggesting he is a lock for best 22. it also suggests Goodwin does not agree with your assessment that Omac is not up to the required standard.

To be honest STMJ i think you are confusing FACT and SUPPOSITION.

 

Yes.

I believe it is fact that at present, Oscar is not playing to the required standard but is hanging on to his position due some circumstantial variables that are out of the clubs control at this point in time.

Do I believe that the club see a future for Oscar? Yes. Clearly.

Was that a contributing factor to him being played ahead of both the completely untried Keilty and the old, last-year-of-his-contract Pederson during the JLT series? Of course.

Was it also a contributing factor in regards to the club deciding not to bring in another key defender over the off-season to allow Oscar to continue to develop his body and craft at VFL level? Yes, clearly. 

Coaches at times put unwavering faith into young players and clearly at the end of last year, Goody had some decisions to make surrounding list management. They decided not to pick up a proven AFL level key defender and we have Oscar holding up a key position pillar in our defence. In my eyes, that was a risk, because they're hoping Oscar will improve dramatically and whilst we're one game into the season, I have seen nothing to suggest he's gone up a level on last year. His last JLT game against West Coast and his game on Sunday haven't been at a AFL standard.

I'm not here to bag Oscar, but I'm concerned about the weaknesses he's displayed over the past two games and I'm genuinely unsure if both Tom and Oscar will perform consistently enough for us to really be a contender in the future. 

Edited March 28, 2017 by stevethemanjordan

[bing181 8,164]

8 minutes ago, stevethemanjordan said:

I'm not here to bag Oscar ...

Your contribution to this thread, and every thread where the name of Oscar McDonald appears, would suggest otherwise.

[parch_37 38]

53 minutes ago, ickey_11 said:

I would like to see:

Spencer come in for Smith and play ruck/forward, Watts to take Smith's role in the backline;

Tyson in for Vince.

That's proper disgusting 

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

49 minutes ago, bing181 said:

Your contribution to this thread, and every thread where the name of Oscar McDonald appears, would suggest otherwise.

 

I'm sure it seems that way.

 

But I'm just a frustrated Melbourne supporter.

[Satyriconhome 9,982]

2 hours ago, mo64 said:

Contrary to what a few of us on Dland thought, Garland was getting games in 2015 and at the start of 2016. Roos and the FD finally woke up that he wasn't playing at AFL standard and banished him to the VFL. By that stage his confidence was shot.

BTW, I think that O Mac will eventually make it, but I'd rather see him learn his craft at VFL level, and not have the same thing happen to him, that happened to Garland.

Coaches and their assistants don't always get things right. Some coaches have their pet players, and a new coach comes in and banishes them to the VFL. Which coach was right, and which was wrong?

 

You are completely wrong about Garland, he being a true professional and was playing with a dodgy ankle and most of the time needed jabs

He got it right over the break and had a solid pre season and was on his way back to some decent form when he did his knee

So you want Omac to learn to play on AFL forwards in the VFL, please, he made a couple of mistakes, the rest of the time he was solid, the side picked this weekend will tell us whether those mistakes were critical enough to warrant being dropped, and that won't be decided on here thankfully

I support the team, and whoever is in it at any given time, they are there for a reason

[Wiseblood 24,636]

1 hour ago, stevethemanjordan said:

 

Yes.

I believe it is fact that at present, Oscar is not playing to the required standard but is hanging on to his position due some circumstantial variables that are out of the clubs control at this point in time.

Do I believe that the club see a future for Oscar? Yes. Clearly.

Was that a contributing factor to him being played ahead of both the completely untried Keilty and the old, last-year-of-his-contract Pederson during the JLT series? Of course.

Was it also a contributing factor in regards to the club deciding not to bring in another key defender over the off-season to allow Oscar to continue to develop his body and craft at VFL level? Yes, clearly. 

Coaches at times put unwavering faith into young players and clearly at the end of last year, Goody had some decisions to make surrounding list management. They decided not to pick up a proven AFL level key defender and we have Oscar holding up a key position pillar in our defence. In my eyes, that was a risk, because they're hoping Oscar will improve dramatically and whilst we're one game into the season, I have seen nothing to suggest he's gone up a level on last year. His last JLT game against West Coast and his game on Sunday haven't been at a AFL standard.

I'm not here to bag Oscar, but I'm concerned about the weaknesses he's displayed over the past two games and I'm genuinely unsure if both Tom and Oscar will perform consistently enough for us to really be a contender in the future. 

This has nothing to do with Oscar, but they were right not to chase some of the proven defenders out there.  Just look at Nathan Brown on the weekend - totally out of his depth.  He was worse than Oscar.  I know you were keen to get someone like him in over the summer, but the game is passing him by quickly.  We were right not to go anywhere near these guys - we would have held on to Dunn if we thought we needed someone of that ilk.

[Bobby Clark 121]

If Hannan gets dropped I will burn Melbourne head quarters to the ground. 

[TeamPlayedFine39 8,154]

I must have missed the match where O'Mac was toweled-up and cost us 10 goals...

I've seen the MFC field some bog-ordinary full backs in my time, O'Mac is not one of them.  Holds his own against mature bodies, beats hands-down opponents his own age (see Schache last year), and provides a significantly safer, yet equally attacking disposal to his brother.  

At any rate, arguing the merits of Oscar McDonald is about as productive as arguing with someone over their religion.  Neither side of the debate is going to change the other's mind.

 

Didn't we win on the weekend???

[Dwight Schrute 16,749]

I think the other thing to remember is oscar was playing on one of the best forwards ever with the ball flying in there in the first quarter. 

[Josh 1,420]

8 minutes ago, Abe said:

I think the other thing to remember is oscar was playing on one of the best forwards ever with the ball flying in there in the first quarter. 

Agreed. Nick Reiwoldt has made better men than OMac look like fools. Absolute champion of the game, one of the best ever

[Bitter but optimistic 21,235]

6 hours ago, jnrmac said:

I wouldn't go on those stats personally. Looking at the two. Keilty looks more solid. He certainly plays a much more physical game than Oscar,

Agreed. Oscar doesn't look 97 kg to me but, in any event, he's a project player and worth sticking with.

As to the ins - Wagner if he's fit but  not certain about the other.

[junk 342]

I remember last year many called for O.Mac to be dropped and to his credit he proved some people wrong. Hopefully he does it again.

[mo64 5,209]

1 hour ago, TeamPlayedFine39 said:

I must have missed the match where O'Mac was toweled-up and cost us 10 goals...

I've seen the MFC field some bog-ordinary full backs in my time, O'Mac is not one of them.  Holds his own against mature bodies, beats hands-down opponents his own age (see Schache last year), and provides a significantly safer, yet equally attacking disposal to his brother.  

At any rate, arguing the merits of Oscar McDonald is about as productive as arguing with someone over their religion.  Neither side of the debate is going to change the other's mind.

 

Didn't we win on the weekend???

We won on Saturday. So what!!!! If you want the team to be contesting finals, you would accept that there is still room for improvement.

You're right in one case. O Mac didn't get towelled up in one-on-one costs. He actually won more contests than lost. His problem is the numerous howlers he made when under little to no pressure. If you want examples, I'm happy to give them, because I've watched the replay 3 times. 

And just to balance things, Lewis made just as many mistakes as O Mac. But in his postgame interview with Matt Burgin, he wasn't happy with the number of turnovers he made. It's reassuring that one of our leaders has higher expectations than our supporters.

Edited March 28, 2017 by mo64

[tappysquads 618]

Has Wagner been doing full training the last couple weeks?

[Satyriconhome 9,982]

56 minutes ago, Bobby Clark said:

If Hannan gets dropped I will burn Melbourne head quarters to the ground. 

Er why would he be dropped?

[jnrmac 18,947]

2 hours ago, bing181 said:

Your contribution to this thread, and every thread where the name of Oscar McDonald appears, would suggest otherwise.

It's a discussion forum. 

[whatwhat say what 18,897]

until such a time as we see the casey report, only ones that make sense are tyson and kent in - they're clear best 22 players.

structurally it'll change our side quite a bit, but other than levi and weitering - and potentially harry mckay - carlton don't play overly tall but instead rely upon small forwards to kick their goals, alongside mids and kreuzer pushing forward.

B: Jetta - T McDonald - Melksham
HB: Hunt - O McDonald - Salem
C: Lewis - Jones - Stretch
HF: Petracca - Hogan - Brayshaw
F: Watts - Weideman - Garlett
Foll: Gawn - Oliver - Viney
I/C: Tyson - Kent - Hannan - Neal-Bullen
Emerg: Bugg - Spencer - Harmes

??

[praha 10,270]

Oscar isn't going anywhere. He and Tommy were very solid from the 2nd onwards. Even after a few brain farts and fumbles the kid still continues on with confidence and urgency. 

Many of you seem to have forgotten his end to 2016 when he was out most consistent defender. 

Defenders are easy targets because their mistakes stand out more. He will learn and the club will benefit from it.

Drop him..for who? Who do we bring in that makes us better?

Will be a long term player for us, just like his bro.