Alcohol

[Wrecker45 3,378]

In the lead up to Christmas last year I was challenged to quit drinking for 5 weeks. I chose the dates of the 5 weeks, so it didn’t impede too much of my social life and was able to do it easily.

I over indulged at points over the holiday period but not excessively. I drove Christmas day because we have both mine and my wife's family parties to attend at locations that seemed like separate ends of the Southern Hemisphere. I tell myself anyone who drives Christmas day when going to events surrounded by family and friends full of drinkers has the balance right.

Since Christmas I was challenged again to go for a longer period of abstinence by someone very close to me who abstains completely from alcohol. This time I have found it much more difficult. I haven’t chosen the dates and feel I am missing out at social events where others are drinking. I feel like I am letting my mates down if I don’t have a beer with them at their event(s) whether it be a birthday, birth of a child or anything else.

It has started to affect me to the point where I have begun googling about stress and abstinence. Not least because where I once would have had a couple of drinks at the end of a stressful work day and masked the stress, I am now copping the full force of the stress and it is taking a toll on me. To my surprise there seems to be an army of studies and literature showing drinkers live longer than teetotallers.

Don’t get me wrong. There is study after study demonstrating alcohol increases your chances of liver cancer, mouth cancer and oesophagus cancer. Alcohol is extremely problematic if you have the genes that predispose your risk to breast cancer. There is a social problem with domestic violence and other alcohol related mishaps. I am not trying to glorify alcohol nor am I trying to evade hard facts.

Epidemiological and longitudinal studies clearly demonstrate that if you drink at a moderate level (up to or less than 21 standard drinks a week for males) you are increasing your chances of living longer overall compared to a non-drinker. The most surprising findings for mine were that people who drink 6 standard drinks or more daily are likely to live longer (have a lower mortality rate) than those who abstain completely from alcohol.

With everything in life including my personal biases I like to hear the alternative opinion. So I have written to a number of anti-alcohol type bloggers requesting they send me a link to any credible studies with actual human observational data that show abstinence is not reducing your life expectancy chances compared to drinkers. I am yet to get a response.

Can anyone here link to a study with actual observation that finds teetotallers outlast even alcoholics? Would appreciate your help.

[nutbean 8,837]

No studies to share only the interesting insight into "letting my mates down if I don't have a drink". I have never been a drinker and if I would have 3 drinks a year I could probably be accused of exaggerating. What is interesting is because I don't drink there has never been any pressure from my drinking buddies to have a glass or two, however should one of the drinkers want a night off  - the crap that he would have to field . Fortunately as we have got older that mentality has somewhat diminished.

What I have never understood is when I see people either throwing up from over indulgence or the aftermath the day after - the hangover - I just don't get how the night of enjoyment can compensate from the deathly illness the next day !

But hey..that's just me.

  

Edited February 13, 2017 by nutbean

[Wrecker45 3,378]

Thanks nut.

Part of the pressure is because i have previously pressured others.

Part of the pressure is because over a number of years i have actively sought out the company of others at social events who are drinking. I tend to avoid the really drunk or really sober.

[nutbean 8,837]

2 minutes ago, Wrecker45 said:

Thanks nut.

Part of the pressure is because i have previously pressured others.

Part of the pressure is because over a number of years i have actively sought out the company of others at social events who are drinking. I tend to avoid the really drunk or really sober.

I don't judge and whatever floats ones boat  - but i avoid the very drunk and i think they would avoid me as when they are in that state,then rarely do we find the same things funny. But i am very popular with my partner and our kids as I am always nominated driver....

[Bossdog 2,002]

Wrecker45

Many years ago, after the death of my wife,I repied on alcohol to get me through.   I would drink most days so that I could sleep at night and get through social occasions that I had to attend.

After gaining weight (110kgs) and feeling always depressed I attended my doctor who told me I was heading for an early grave.   I would have at least a dozen cans a night and drink by myself.

So....I gave up the drink, joined a gym and began walking the dog 4 ks a day.   It wasn't as hard as I thought and the dog loves me.

I now drink socially and enjoy the times when I do but I still restrain myself and limit my alcohol intake.

The only thing I can tell you is that I feel so much better in my everyday life.   I don't drink weekdays and only drink in a social setting

I'm down to 85kgs and now reasonably fit for my age.

Hope this helps  

 

Edited February 13, 2017 by Bossdog

[Wrecker45 3,378]

15 minutes ago, Bossdog said:

Wrecker45

Many years ago, after the death of my wife,I repied on alcohol to get me through.   I would drink most days so that I could sleep at night and get through social occasions that I had to attend.

After gaining weight (110kgs) and feeling always depressed I attended my doctor who told me I was heading for an early grave.   I would have at least a dozen cans a night and drink by myself.

So....I gave up the drink, joined a gym and began walking the dog 4 ks a day.   It wasn't as hard as I thought and the dog loves me.

I now drink socially and enjoy the times when I do but I still restrain myself and limit my alcohol intake.

The only thing I can tell you is that I feel so much better in my everyday life.   I don't drink weekdays and only drink in a social setting

I'm down to 85kgs and now reasonably fit for my age.

Hope this helps  

 

Thanks Bossdog. You personify what I believe is healthy living. I am starting to question if abstinence is detrimental to ones health. 

[nutbean 8,837]

50 minutes ago, Wrecker45 said:

Thanks Bossdog. You personify what I believe is healthy living. I am starting to question if abstinence is detrimental to ones health. 

Is more the question - do you need to abstain ? 

It know it is a tired old cliche but "everything in moderation". You are going to be a long time dead so why deny yourself the pleasure if it causes no ill effect mentally or physically ?

[Wrecker45 3,378]

6 minutes ago, nutbean said:

Is more the question - do you need to abstain ? 

It know it is a tired old cliche but "everything in moderation". You are going to be a long time dead so why deny yourself the pleasure if it causes no ill effect mentally or physically ?

Right back at you.

Everything in moderation.

Are you increasing your mortality rate by abstaining? 

[nutbean 8,837]

Just now, Wrecker45 said:

Right back at you.

Everything in moderation.

Are you increasing your mortality rate by abstaining? 

 

I don't know and never gave it a thought - My abstinence comes from never really developing a taste for alcohol. 

[Cards13 9,117]

The goodly wife has put the hard word on me over the last 2 years to calm the drinking down, when she got pregnant she realised how much we drank and she could see I've not slowed down.

It came to a head after she realised how much I'd had over 1 weekend a month or so ago. So I am doing my own Feb Fast, aiming for only 2 events to drink at . I feel better for not drinking as much, people at work have said I'm less grumpy. In saying I feel like a drink most of the time, finding it hard work a lot of the time to abstain but I do know it is good for me and am aiming to keep this as an ongoing process.  

[Wrecker45 3,378]

Whilst I encourage posters personal stories (positive or negative) the aim of my post was to see if anyone could find an epidemiological or longitudinal study that suggests drinking might reduce your life expectancy compared to non-drinkers.

 

[daisycutter 28,456]

25 minutes ago, Wrecker45 said:

Whilst I encourage posters personal stories (positive or negative) the aim of my post was to see if anyone could find an epidemiological or longitudinal study that suggests drinking might reduce your life expectancy compared to non-drinkers.

 

Wrecker, what i think you are really looking for is a study that compares life expectancy of "moderate drinking vs total abstinence"

there are three main problems here. 1. what is "moderate"?   2. not all people are the same wrt to alcohol   and 3. what form of alcohol (wine, beer, spirits etc)

I don't think you will find such a definitive and scientific study with usable conclusions

common sense should dictate that there would be little difference between (genuine) moderation and abstinence to worry about

moderate alcohol, a healthy diet and good exercise should be good enough.   nature, luck and your genes will decide the rest

DrDc

Edited February 13, 2017 by daisycutter

[hardtack 10,126]

"One of the most contentious issues in the vast literature about alcohol consumption has been the consistent finding that those who don't drink tend to die sooner than those who do. The standard Alcoholics Anonymous explanation for this finding is that many of those who show up as abstainers in such research are actually former hard-core drunks who had already incurred health problems associated with drinking."

"But a new paper in the journal Alcoholism: Clinical and Experimental Research suggests that — for reasons that aren't entirely clear — abstaining from alcohol does tend to increase one's risk of dying, even when you exclude former problem drinkers. The most shocking part? Abstainers' mortality rates are higher than those of heavy drinkers. "

http://content.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,2017200,00.html

Edited February 13, 2017 by hardtack

[Wrecker45 3,378]

14 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

Wrecker, what i think you are really looking for is a study that compares life expectancy of "moderate drinking vs total abstinence"

there are three main problems here. 1. what is "moderate"?   2. not all people are the same wrt to alcohol   and 3. what form of alcohol (wine, beer, spirits etc)

I don't think you will find such a definitive and scientific study with usable conclusions

common sense should dictate that there would be little difference between (genuine) moderation and abstinence to worry about

moderate alcohol, a healthy diet and good exercise should be good enough.   nature, luck and your genes will decide the rest

DrDc

DrDc

No i am really looking for studies described exactly as i stated.

Common sense might say one thing but i am asking for anyone to provide a study or sample set proving it false.

Edited February 13, 2017 by Wrecker45

[nutbean 8,837]

6 minutes ago, hardtack said:

"One of the most contentious issues in the vast literature about alcohol consumption has been the consistent finding that those who don't drink tend to die sooner than those who do. The standard Alcoholics Anonymous explanation for this finding is that many of those who show up as abstainers in such research are actually former hard-core drunks who had already incurred health problems associated with drinking."

"But a new paper in the journal Alcoholism: Clinical and Experimental Research suggests that — for reasons that aren't entirely clear — abstaining from alcohol does tend to increase one's risk of dying, even when you exclude former problem drinkers. The most shocking part? Abstainers' mortality rates are higher than those of heavy drinkers. "

http://content.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,2017200,00.html

that's enough to get me to start drinking !

[nutbean 8,837]

I think there are countless studies showing a correlation between being a Dees supporter and alcoholism.

[Ethan Tremblay 28,289]

I drink therefore I am. 

[hardtack 10,126]

"I'd rather the bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy" (Tom Waits).

[daisycutter 28,456]

i only drink twice a year..... when it rains.....and when it doesn't  (Dean Martin)

[Wrecker45 3,378]

Thanks for all the replies but can someone just link to a study that shows non-drinkers can expect to outlive even alcoholics?

There seems to be a tidal wave of studies showing the opposite.

[hardtack 10,126]

1 hour ago, Wrecker45 said:

Thanks for all the replies but can someone just link to a study that shows non-drinkers can expect to outlive even alcoholics?

There seems to be a tidal wave of studies showing the opposite.

In the quotes I supplied above, there was a link to a paper that discusses what you are asking about... this link will take you to a preview of the paper which, if it piques your interest and you want to look at the paper in full, a temporary licence can be purchased ($6 or so for 48hrs from memory):
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1530-0277.2010.01286.x/epdf?r3_referer=wol&tracking_action=preview_click&show_checkout=1&purchase_site_license=LICENSE_DENIED

[Biffen 12,298]

Good news story of the day.

[Wrecker45 3,378]

2 hours ago, hardtack said:

In the quotes I supplied above, there was a link to a paper that discusses what you are asking about... this link will take you to a preview of the paper which, if it piques your interest and you want to look at the paper in full, a temporary licence can be purchased ($6 or so for 48hrs from memory):
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1530-0277.2010.01286.x/epdf?r3_referer=wol&tracking_action=preview_click&show_checkout=1&purchase_site_license=LICENSE_DENIED

Thanks Hardtack. Without subscribing (just reading your quotes above) that seems to confirm what i keep reading.

 

[Earl Hood 5,787]

Wrecker be aware that while moderate alcohol consumption over a long period of time may increase longevity as has been proposed by several Wine Industry funded studies, it does have side effects. It can impair your ability to recognise obvious trends in data sets,  for example you may find yourself unable to process a trend like rising temperatures across the globe particularly over the past 20 years and instead you see a temperature trend that is flat based on one high figure from 1998. This data trend impairment is more wide spread than first thought, recent studies are showing that most of the front bench of the current government are obviously long term, moderate drinkers! 

[Wrecker45 3,378]

Can't believe one of my own threads has been hijacked by climate change. That's my job.

Edited February 13, 2017 by Wrecker45