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4 hours ago, binman said:

To be honest with an opening statement such as being 'over getting into unwinnable bun fights on this site' i don't see the point in bothering to give my definition of greatness, given you have made it clear that you will counter any points i make. So i won't bother.

Just accept that i think America is a great country and i'll accept you don't think it is. Done. 

 

Well put. I'd still like to know why you think this. I don't want to argue, I'm simply curious as to how anyone can think this. Are you talking Geography, its people? 

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3 hours ago, hardtack said:

You’ll never hear me accusing the US of being a great country.  

Back to those figures, if you’re talking of a period starting in 2003 and continuing through to recent times, then in that period, the US would still have a gun related deaths figure that comes close to being 50%.  Not something to be proud of.

Precisely. They certainly know how to kill, those so-called Americans ( as though Canada and Central and South America don't count  as 'Americans', if you know what I mean.)

In an ideal world, they'd stick to just killing each other.

What perplexes me to the point of being prostrate with bafflement is that there are people in the so-called civilized world who simply refuse to see that a country which has such a high turnover of horrific mass shootings is sick to the core, that it is one of the biggest, most hypocritical basket cases in the history of the world. Trump, if you like, is the festering puss-filled pimple of this mess called the USA, an entity totally devoted to and ruled by weapons, most of them weapons of mass destruction. Equally as sickening is that the next choice the voters of the USA had was another imbecilic, corrupt war machine called Hilary Clinton.

God spare us.

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13 hours ago, dieter said:

Well put. I'd still like to know why you think this. I don't want to argue, I'm simply curious as to how anyone can think this. Are you talking Geography, its people? 

If you were to disqualify  a country from being considered great by things such as war record, history of  treatment of its indigenous people or how it went about colonising and treating other countries not a single country could be considered great. Not one.

When i say America is a great country i mean in a historical sense. I have said on DL before that the movie Life Of Brian provides some great analogies for life and once again it delivers in this context. I'm thinking of the 'What did the roman's ever do for us scene' here. 

To paraphrase: 

Apart from helping establish the principles of democracy, advances in medicine, advances in science, helping defeat Hitler and fascism, brilliant artists, brilliant thinkers, great writers, driving all manner of technological advances (eg flight, the telephone, space travel, computers etc etc) and promoting a culture of human rights through the last 100 years what has America ever done for us. 

in this context I found this article from the Atlantic  Magazine from March 1959 fascinating 

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3 hours ago, binman said:

If you were to disqualify  a country from being considered great by things such as war record, history of  treatment of its indigenous people or how it went about colonising and treating other countries not a single country could be considered great. Not one.

When i say America is a great country i mean in a historical sense. I have said on DL before that the movie Life Of Brian provides some great analogies for life and once again it delivers in this context. I'm thinking of the 'What did the roman's ever do for us scene' here. 

To paraphrase: 

Apart from helping establish the principles of democracy, advances in medicine, advances in science, helping defeat Hitler and fascism, brilliant artists, brilliant thinkers, great writers, driving all manner of technological advances (eg flight, the telephone, space travel, computers etc etc) and promoting a culture of human rights through the last 100 years what has America ever done for us. 

in this context I found this article from the Atlantic  Magazine from March 1959 fascinating 

Great reply. I was going to add 'writers, musicians, artists, music' to my list but the edit time had elapsed.

The 'Democracy' claim always gets me because the American Constitution was written by a dude who kept slaves. Therefore it is a racially biased piece of pomp and ceremony, in reality not worth the paper it's written on. That's just my view.

You mention the medicine, the science, all the technological advances. Once again, true to a point. It's just that most of the scientists, doctors and inventors were European emigres.

The human rights clause is in my view a total furphy. Human rights for who? The white, privileged elite? Try telling the Iraquis, the Afghanis, the Vietnamese, the El Salvadorians, the 5000  poor who were slaughtered by US Marines when they invaded Panama ostensibly to capture Norriega, the Communist Greeks who the US napalmed in the late 40's, the North Koreans, or the Syrians, or the Libyans, or the Iranians and Iraqis who were slaughted by US ordinance during that obscene US brokered war between Iraq and Iran. I could go on. We won't mention the human rights of the American Indians who had the nerve to try to stop the wagon trains. Granted, it made for great Westerns when we were kids and dumb and brainwashed enough to believe only white settlers had the right to kill and protect their land or property. And, until the Civil Rights movement of the 60's, tell me about the 'culture of human rights' in the US for its Blacks.

 

Yes, the Yanks helped to defeat Hitler. It's just that if the American clowns who were one of the main architects of the Treaty of Versailles had any brains or foresight or wisdom, Hitler would not have been possible in the first place.

 

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4 hours ago, binman said:

If you were to disqualify  a country from being considered great by things such as war record, history of  treatment of its indigenous people or how it went about colonising and treating other countries not a single country could be considered great. Not one.

When i say America is a great country i mean in a historical sense. I have said on DL before that the movie Life Of Brian provides some great analogies for life and once again it delivers in this context. I'm thinking of the 'What did the roman's ever do for us scene' here. 

To paraphrase: 

Apart from helping establish the principles of democracy, advances in medicine, advances in science, helping defeat Hitler and fascism, brilliant artists, brilliant thinkers, great writers, driving all manner of technological advances (eg flight, the telephone, space travel, computers etc etc) and promoting a culture of human rights through the last 100 years what has America ever done for us. 

in this context I found this article from the Atlantic  Magazine from March 1959 fascinating 

Also, I've read the Schlesinger article you referred to. A couple of things about it. Firstly, it was written in 1959 when the world was different. This was the world Kennedy inherited, what is referred to as a kind of Camelot, a kind of cutesy apple pie innocense.

Well, unfortunately, bubbling away in the background was what Eisenhowere - who ironically was one of the architects of it - called the Military Industrial Complex. The USA had already napalmed Greece - though nobody in the west knew about it - had reduced North Korea into a lunar, rubble filled wasteland - to the extent that MacArthur, when he was flown over the flattened debris called North Korea was reduced to tears - had deposed the democratically elected government of Iran and replaced it with the Shah who became as filthy rich as the British and American Oil Companies who ran Iraq until the Ayatollahs. Vietnam was already brewing and 'niggers were still niggers and forced to the back of the bus. And McCarthy was always hovering, and Joe Edgar Hoover was rounding up gays while all the while pretending he wasn't the biggest gay in town 

And in the meantime, Hollywood and Disneyland painted a noble picture of white American toil and effort, the wagon train scenario, the American noble white man defending his kith and kin on his quest to 'open up' the West. 

In other words, this article is a kind of glossy whitewash, a broad  canvass populated only by Great and Noble White Men whose aims were decent and kind and honest and true. 

Notably, there is massive silence in this article about Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

The problem is that the evidence is there if, you want to stare it in the face and uncover it, that this canvass Schlesinger tries to paint was/is pure Fantasyland.

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1 hour ago, dieter said:

Also, I've read the Schlesinger article you referred to. A couple of things about it. Firstly, it was written in 1959 when the world was different. This was the world Kennedy inherited, what is referred to as a kind of Camelot, a kind of cutesy apple pie innocense.

Well, unfortunately, bubbling away in the background was what Eisenhowere - who ironically was one of the architects of it - called the Military Industrial Complex. The USA had already napalmed Greece - though nobody in the west knew about it - had reduced North Korea into a lunar, rubble filled wasteland - to the extent that MacArthur, when he was flown over the flattened debris called North Korea was reduced to tears - had deposed the democratically elected government of Iran and replaced it with the Shah who became as filthy rich as the British and American Oil Companies who ran Iraq until the Ayatollahs. Vietnam was already brewing and 'niggers were still niggers and forced to the back of the bus. And McCarthy was always hovering, and Joe Edgar Hoover was rounding up gays while all the while pretending he wasn't the biggest gay in town 

And in the meantime, Hollywood and Disneyland painted a noble picture of white American toil and effort, the wagon train scenario, the American noble white man defending his kith and kin on his quest to 'open up' the West. 

In other words, this article is a kind of glossy whitewash, a broad  canvass populated only by Great and Noble White Men whose aims were decent and kind and honest and true. 

Notably, there is massive silence in this article about Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

The problem is that the evidence is there if, you want to stare it in the face and uncover it, that this canvass Schlesinger tries to paint was/is pure Fantasyland.

All true enough. but those things, in my world view don't disqualify America from being considered a great country. 

But as i pointed out clearly we were never going to agree on whether America is a great country. I maintain it is. But that is obviously based on my own criteria. A criteria that means that i believe Russia, China, Japan and Germany are all great counties despite their human rights record and that fact all have been guilty of genocide against their own people and those of other countries.

But lets stop now. Demonland's dark web makes me dizzy.

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1 hour ago, dieter said:

Also, I've read the Schlesinger article you referred to. A couple of things about it. Firstly, it was written in 1959 when the world was different. This was the world Kennedy inherited, what is referred to as a kind of Camelot, a kind of cutesy apple pie innocense.

Well, unfortunately, bubbling away in the background was what Eisenhowere - who ironically was one of the architects of it - called the Military Industrial Complex. The USA had already napalmed Greece - though nobody in the west knew about it - had reduced North Korea into a lunar, rubble filled wasteland - to the extent that MacArthur, when he was flown over the flattened debris called North Korea was reduced to tears - had deposed the democratically elected government of Iran and replaced it with the Shah who became as filthy rich as the British and American Oil Companies who ran Iraq until the Ayatollahs. Vietnam was already brewing and 'niggers were still niggers and forced to the back of the bus. And McCarthy was always hovering, and Joe Edgar Hoover was rounding up gays while all the while pretending he wasn't the biggest gay in town 

And in the meantime, Hollywood and Disneyland painted a noble picture of white American toil and effort, the wagon train scenario, the American noble white man defending his kith and kin on his quest to 'open up' the West. 

In other words, this article is a kind of glossy whitewash, a broad  canvass populated only by Great and Noble White Men whose aims were decent and kind and honest and true. 

Notably, there is massive silence in this article about Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

The problem is that the evidence is there if, you want to stare it in the face and uncover it, that this canvass Schlesinger tries to paint was/is pure Fantasyland.

I urge you to seek clinical help.

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51 minutes ago, Biffen said:

I urge you to seek clinical help.

Got anyone in mind? No way ECT, no wuckin fay.

Apart from drugs and alcohol, what brought you to the culmination of St Paul's fascist way? The great Damascus moment, the city the USA has spent billions trying to destroy lately. Thank you ISIS, thank you Hilary, thank you CIA, thank you all the mindless dumbfluck lunatics who have perverted the course of history to oblige the Neocon way.

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Why America is the World’s Most Uniquely Cruel Society

Or, How Punching Down Became a Way of Life

 
1*WzvTIbfKGUN3npnm71RaxQ.jpeg

In this essay, I want to share with you a tiny theory of what it means to be American. It is up to you to judge, as ever, whether it carries any weight. All that I will say is that when I look around, it explains, a little, what I see.

Any theory of being American must explain one salient and striking fact: cruelty. America is the most cruel nation among its peers — even among most poor countries today. It is something like a new Rome. It has little, if any, functioning healthcare, education, transport, media, no safety nets, no stability, security. The middle class is collapsing, and life expectancy is falling.Young people die for a lack of insulin they cannot crowdfund. Elderly middle-class people live and die in their cars. Kids massacre each other in schools — when they’re not self-medicating the pain of it all away. The combination of these pathologies happens nowhere else — not a single place — in the world. Not even Pakistan, Costa Rica, or Rwanda. Hence, the world is aghast daily at the depths of American cruelty — yet somehow, they seem bottomless.

(Of course I don’t mean that all Americans are cruel. I just mean that in the same way we say countries have attitude, dispositions, that there’s such a thing as a French or German national attitude or disposition, so, too there is an American one. Nor do I mean America is “the most cruel society in the world”. Can we really ever judge that? But it is uniquely cruel — a kind of special example — in weird, needless, and singular ways.)

Let me throw that into relief. Scandinavians are the happiest, longest-lived, and most prosperous people in the world because they do not punish one another constantly — but lift one another up. But Americans do not believe this reality. The underlying sentiment that unites America’s manifold problems is a myth of cruelty.

So. Where did the myth of cruelty come from? That is the question before us if we really want to understand America. I’ve wondered since I was a kid, to be honest. I thought, once, it was about capitalism, patriarchy, race, once. But now I think that while those are expressions of it. That something more primary, fundamental, and unique happened.

America was a strange, improbable combination of things, singular in history. A Promised Land —but one for the despised. Waves upon waves of them washed up on its shores. First, the Puritans, mocked and loathed in England. Then peasants and farmers and outlaws from across Europe. Then Chinese, Japanese, Latinos, and today, Muslims.

These emigrants all tended to share a common trait. They were at the very bottom, the lowest rung, of social and economic heirarchies in their own countries. All of them. That has changed a little recently — but America was founded by and for the despised, loathed, hated. People referred to as trash, nobodies, serfs, exiles, outcasts — who were never given an ounce of respect, dignity, or even belonging, in their societies of origin.

Let me make that clearer. We did not see nobles and landed gentry emigrate to America. British Lords and German Counts and Italians Barons. We saw German peasant, Irish villagers, Swedish farmers, the dwellers of Italian slums. People from the very lowest of heirarchies elsewhere, the oppressed and the subjugated, came to this Promised Land.

So first the English and French settlers supposed that this New World was theirs (and began a kind of genocide against its natives, of course). But it wasn’t just the natives that they came to hate, for threatening their natural right to this Promised Land. It was the next waves of settlers, too. The English settlers hated the French. The French hated the Germans. They all hated the Irish. The Irish hated the Italians. And so on. That much is historical fact. Do you see the pattern forming yet?

This is very abstract, so let me make it concrete. Here came one wave of settlers — English. They dominated their way to the top of a hierarchy, above natives and blacks. Then came a new wave — German. They were punched down too — and began punching down — to bitterly establish themselves in this hierarchy, as high up as they could. Then another wave — Irish. Punched, punching down. All desperately vying for relative dominance among the rest.

You see, the crucial fact is that this didn’t happen elsewhere in the world — waves of settlers, all desperately trying to establish themselves above the next, last, most recent, in a hierarchy, all the more so, because they were despised, at the bottom, to begin with. In Europe, Asia, South America, heirarchies were long established — and broken only by revolution. America was the only nation where this constant reconstruction of hierarchy happened to such a degree, over and over again. Hence, the establishment of cruelty as a way of life — how else but to establish one’s self above the next wave of migrants?

Each new tribe that came to this Promised Land brought the burden of being despised, subjugated, oppressed, with them. They were finally above someone else in a social hierarchy. They were not at the bottom anymore. But to be above requires somone else to be below. And so there was a constant battle for relative position within a growing hierarchy — hence, dominance, competition, conquest soon became the prized cultural values, norms, and institutional goals. Cruelty as a way of life was born.

When we noted that the despised of England hated the newly arrived despised of France hated the newly arrived despised of Germany and so on, not to mentions natives, blacks, and Asians, in an endless vicious circle, we are also saying: America was learning to be cruel, by forever constructing greater heirachies to seize the fruits of a Promised Land. But greater hierarchies require greater cruelty to climb up, too. And the irony is that all this is what the despised came to America to escape.

(I’ll add peripheral point. The despised, when coming to a Promised Land, are the least likely, perversely, though we might not immediately think so, to want to share it — because they, at last, have something that they feel is theirs. Today’s servant wants to be tomorrow’s master. Today’s peasant wants to be tomorrow’s landlord. Today’s victim aspires to be tomorrow’s oppressor.)

Now. What was really happening here, in more modern terms? People were learning to “punch down”, as we might put it today. Americans were being taught to take out their anger, rage, and fear on those less powerful than them — usually, the most obvious and immediate ones they could find. An Irish mutt bastard moved into the neighbourhood? Get them. No Chinamen allowed. Those Italians? We’ve got to move them out of our city. Intern those Japanese.

Punching down began to be institutionalized and normalized. Cruelty was becoming a way of life and a norm. Tribe after tribe of the despised fled to a Promised Land, but each one demanded their position above the last, having never had anything before. People who had been hated and outcast had status and belonging at last — but only by punching down the next wave. So no mechanisms ever really developed to allow the Promised Land to be shared wisely, well, or reasonably. Might became right.

Now, American leaders tried to intervene every now and then. FDR’s second bill of rights, JFK’s vision for a fairer society, and so on. But they were not very succesful — because they were fighting a history of cruelty that they did not really understand: one that went to the heart of what it means to be American itself. So they never really said: “Wait. What do we all really have in common, us Americans? We are the despised and mocked of history. Its outcasts and its exiles. This is what unites us! Let us stop punching down, then. Otherwise, what have we really learned? We are only repeating the very history of cruelty that we tried to escape from.”

How sad. How funny. Americans came to a Promised Land — but they could not escape themselves. Each new wave, trying to rise above the next, built a world even more cruel than the old one. Punching down, down, down, endlessly.

So, today, here we are. Punching down has become a national institution, a norm, and a way of life. School shootings? Can’t ban guns — let the kids have “active shooter drills”. We are punching all the way down to our little five years olds. Life expectancy falling? Can’t have healthcare — let them self-medicate with opioids. We are punching down to the poorest. Education cost a fortune? Too bad, take out debt. We are punching down to our young people. I could give you endless examples. But perhaps you get the point by now.

What does it mean to be American? To really “be” — see, feel, think, act American, so much so that you are not self-aware of it, because it is unconscious, reflexive, invisible, this way of “being”?

Well, it means what it always has. Punching down, not lifting up. Punching down is hardwired into America by now, thanks to a unique history of settlers — who had never had any — punching the next wave down for relative hierarchical position. An attitude of cruelty was born. And so today cruelty is the point of its institutions, the purpose of its norms, and the linchpin of its perverse idea of virtue, that by punishing people, we can better them. It is all that Americans expect from each other — and give to each other. That is the terrible burden of a Promised Land that history’s despised warred among one another for domination of.

The problem is this. A society of people punching one another down must collapse. What else could it do? It cannot rise, can it? If I am punching you down, and I am punching the next person down below me, how can anyone ever lift anyone up? But without lifting one another up, a society cannot grow in quantity or quality of life. This, too, is what happened to Soviet Russia.

America has never reckoned with its history of cruelty. Instead, it developed a defensive mythology of being welcoming — even while every new wave of immigrants had to fight, sometimes quite literally little street by street, against the last wave, for a piece of the Promise Land. Like all myths, that one — was a lie that revealed the truth: America was a Promised Land for the huddled masses to roam free — but only if they could fend off the other tribes, by punching them down, endlessly,.

A Promised Land is like a Garden of Eden. But who can live in the Garden peacefully but angels? Human beings, flawed, indelicate things, are only meant to be cast out— they are ever in conflict, in tension, hungry and ravenous. And that is never truer than for their most despised — who need to be healed most, or else will ravage their Gardens worst.

In this way, a Garden, given to the despised, is a war, waiting to happen. A war against itself. America is at just such a war, and has always been. The name of this war is cruelty. But the end of this war is not victory, but collapse.

I don’t say any of this to blame, shame, or judge. But only so that, perhaps, this history of violence can at last be reckoned with.

Umair
February 2018

 
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On 2/21/2018 at 12:53 PM, binman said:

If you were to disqualify  a country from being considered great by things such as war record, history of  treatment of its indigenous people or how it went about colonising and treating other countries not a single country could be considered great. Not one.

When i say America is a great country i mean in a historical sense. I have said on DL before that the movie Life Of Brian provides some great analogies for life and once again it delivers in this context. I'm thinking of the 'What did the roman's ever do for us scene' here. 

To paraphrase: 

Apart from helping establish the principles of democracy, advances in medicine, advances in science, helping defeat Hitler and fascism, brilliant artists, brilliant thinkers, great writers, driving all manner of technological advances (eg flight, the telephone, space travel, computers etc etc) and promoting a culture of human rights through the last 100 years what has America ever done for us. 

in this context I found this article from the Atlantic  Magazine from March 1959 fascinating 

and don't forget america gave the world billy graham who spawned a multitude of televangelists. amen (sorry, aperson)

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3 hours ago, daisycutter said:

and don't forget america gave the world billy graham who spawned a multitude of televangelists. amen (sorry, aperson)

Interesting in retrospect that Billy would call his religious get togethers Crusades! It makes some sense on a superficial level referring back to the original crusades to recover control of the Holy Land from the Islamic hoardes; however if you ever take the time to read the history of the Crusaders you find you are dealing with a bunch of blood thirsty opportunists interested in killing the locals and acquiring their land. Nothing religious in any of their actions and then there was the 4th Crusade that raped and pillaged Constantinople a Christian city before they even got to see a Muslim! Great blue print Billy. 

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10 hours ago, Earl Hood said:

Interesting in retrospect that Billy would call his religious get togethers Crusades! It makes some sense on a superficial level referring back to the original crusades to recover control of the Holy Land from the Islamic hoardes; however if you ever take the time to read the history of the Crusaders you find you are dealing with a bunch of blood thirsty opportunists interested in killing the locals and acquiring their land. Nothing religious in any of their actions and then there was the 4th Crusade that raped and pillaged Constantinople a Christian city before they even got to see a Muslim! Great blue print Billy. 

surely the record for the biggest crowd ever at the mcg speaks to his 'greatness', earl. mcchins can only drool.

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38 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

surely the record for the biggest crowd ever at the mcg speaks to his 'greatness', earl. mcchins can only drool.

Just proves you can fool most of the people most of the time. The bigger the lie...to quote Goebbels.

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You've got to hand it to Trump - he has this uncanny ability - he's almost like Stephen Curry, lobbing those three-pointers - I've never seen anything quite like it - he has this astonishing ability to say the wrong thing. His brain must be made of jello. 

 

His response to crazies shooting children: arm the teachers and re-open the madhouses of the old days. Can you imagine what kind of weirdo could come up with such inappropriate ideas? No consideration of the obvious solutions: stop selling assault weapons to anybody who wants one and improve your health system.

 

He's King Midas in reverse: everything he touches turns to merde. He's wrong on everything. (I wondered how he could have had the brains to build a property empire, then I remembered he inherited it)

 

Which leads me to the obvious question: you Demonland climate deniers, what's it like having this fruitcake in your corner? Forget the science: I'd say, the mere fact that he doesn't believe in global warming is proof that it's happening.

 

 

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38 minutes ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

I agree with the petition. It just goes to show how corrupt and immoral the USA is in the she was the alternative to the Strumpet. The USA  is the greatest Terrorist organisation in the world.

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How's Trump? "If there was a school shooting, I'd go running at the gunman, even if I didn't have a gun." 

 

Yeah, sure, like you did in Vietnam. Heel-spurs - wasn't that his excuse? Or VD?

 

What a boastful, bloated, self-deluded moron. 

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1 hour ago, Jara said:

How's Trump? "If there was a school shooting, I'd go running at the gunman, even if I didn't have a gun." 

 

Yeah, sure, like you did in Vietnam. Heel-spurs - wasn't that his excuse? Or VD?

 

What a boastful, bloated, self-deluded moron. 

I know he holds a fairly important job but I am absolutely addicted to Trump.I have to read every day what new fluff and nonsense he has uttered.  He is the comedy act that just keeps giving. 

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    HIBERNATING by KC from Casey

    When they locked up the rooms for summer at the end of last year’s football season, the rooms gathered cobwebs, the atmosphere became dense and the place developed a sleepy feel. They opened up the rooms to let Casey out to play on Sunday but the team was still hibernating and they missed the bulk of the opening quarter. By the time they worked out it was game on, their opponents from Box Hill had accumulated five goals and, if the game wasn’t over, it might as well have been. For a se

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Casey Articles

    A FORK IN THE HAWK by George on the Outer

    For too long in the past, Demon fans became habitually sick and tired of watching the Hawks hand out thrashings to their side. But Melbourne’s empahtic 55-point win at the MCG on Saturday has truly put a fork in the Hawk and turned that history well and truly on its head. The Demons have now won nine of their last ten encounters with the other result, a draw.     And like a fork, it was the multi-pronged options that Melbourne had all across the ground.  It certainly helped that Hawthorn

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports 8

    PREGAME: Rd 03 vs Port Adelaide

    The Demons head on the road for the next 2 weeks as they travel to Adelaide to play Port on Saturday and then have a 5 Day break before facing the Crows in the Gather Round. With injuries to May and Lever who comes in and who goes out?

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 263

    PODCAST: Rd 02 vs Hawthorn

    The Demonland Podcast will air LIVE on Monday, 25th March @ 8:30pm. Join George, Binman & I as we analyse the Demons victory at the MCG against the Hawks in the Round 02. You questions and comments are a huge part of our podcast so please post anything you want to ask or say below and we'll give you a shout out on the show. If you would like to leave us a voicemail please call 03 9016 3666 and don't worry no body answers so you don't have to talk to a human. Listen & Chat

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 46

    VOTES: Rd 02 vs Hawthorn

    Last week Steven May took the lead in the Demonland Player of the Year Award from Jack Viney. Clayton Oliver & Max Gawn round out the Top 4. Your votes for the win/loss against/to the Hawks. 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1.

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 50

    POSTGAME: Rd 02 vs Hawthorn

    The Demons cruised to an easy 55 point win over the Hawks at the MCG but but paid a heavy toll on the injury front with Steven May & Jake Lever possibly sidelined for a number of weeks.

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 357

    GAMEDAY: Rd 02 vs Hawthorn

    It's Game Day and after mixed results in the first two weeks of the season the Demons have the opportunity to capitalise on their good form last week when they take on the Hawks at the MCG today.

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 437
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    NON-MFC: Round 03

    Discussion of all the other games that don't involve the Demons in Round 03 ... READ MORE

    Demonland | Round 03

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    DEPTH CHARGE by Whispering Jack

    The jubilation on the coach’s face as he danced a celebratory jig by the playing bench after the final siren sounded to record his team’s four-point victory over the Demons when the teams last met, said it all ... READ MORE

    Demonland | March 27

  • Latest Podcast      

    PODCAST: Rd 02 vs Hawthorn

    The boys dissected the clinical thrashing of Hawks praising the immense performance of Christian Petracca whilst lamenting the injury toll to our defensive unit ... LISTEN

    Demonland | March 26

  • Training  

    Monday, 25th March 2024

    Demonland Trackwatchers Demon Dynasty & Kev Martin were trackside at Gosch's Paddock today to bring you their observations from training ... READ MORE

    Demonland | March 25

  • Casey Report      

    HIBERNATING by KC from Casey

    When they locked up the rooms for summer at the end of last year’s football season, the rooms gathered cobwebs, the atmosphere became dense and the place developed a sleepy feel. They opened up the rooms to let Casey out to play on Sunday but the team was still hibernating and they missed the bulk of the opening quarter ... READ MORE

    Demonland | March 25

  • PreGame      

    PREGAME: Rd 03 vs Port Adelaide

    The Demons head out on the road for the next 2 weeks as they travel to Adelaide to play Port on Saturday and then have a 5 Day break before facing the Crows in Gather Round. With injuries to May and Lever who comes in and who goes out? ...READ MORE

    Demonland | March 28

  • Match Report      

    A FORK IN THE HAWK by George on the Outer

    For too long in the past, Demon fans became habitually sick and tired of watching the Hawks hand out thrashings to their side. But Melbourne’s empahtic 55-point win at the MCG on Saturday has truly put a fork in the Hawk and turned that history well and truly on its head ... READ MORE

    Demonland | March 23

  • Post Game      

    POSTGAME: Rd 02 vs Hawthorn

    The Demons cruised to an easy 55 point win over the Hawks at the MCG but but paid a heavy toll on the injury front with Steven May & Jake Lever possibly sidelined for a number of weeks ...READ MORE

    Demonland | March 23

  • Votes      

    VOTES: Rd 02 vs Hawthorn

    Last week Steven May took the lead in the Demonland Player of the Year Award from Jack Viney. Clayton Oliver & Max Gawn round out the Top 4. Your votes for the win/loss against/to the Hawks. 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 ...READ MORE

    Demonland | March 23

  • Game Day      

    GAMEDAY: Round 02 vs Hawthorn

    It's Game Day and after mixed results in the first two weeks of the season the Demons have the opportunity to capitalise on their good form last week when they take on the Hawks at the MCG today ... READ MORE

    Demonland | March 23

  • Training  

    Friday, 22nd March 2024

    Demonland Trackwatcher Kev Martin and I attended the Captain's Run at Gosch's Paddock on this lovely sunny morning to bring you the following observations from the training session ... READ MORE

    Demonland | March 22

  • Training  

    Tuesday, 19th March 2024

    Demonland Trackwatchers Kev Martin & Walking Civil War attended Tuesday morning's training session at Gosch's Paddock to bring you the following observations ... READ MORE

    Demonland | March 19

  • Training  

    Saturday, 16th March 2024

    Demonland Trackwatchers Kev Martin and Dee Zephyr wandered down to Gosch's Paddock on Saturday morning to bring you their observations from the Captain's Run in the lead up to Sunday's Round One match against the Bulldogs ... READ MORE

    Demonland | March 16

  • Farewell  

    Angus Brayshaw Retires

    After 167 games including the drought breaking Premiership Angus Brayshaw has made the heart breaking decision to medically retire from football as a result of a series of serious head knocks over his nearly decade of footy. We wish Gus all the best and he'll always be a hero at Demonland ... READ MORE

    Demonland | February 22

  • Latest Podcast  

    PODCAST: Koltyn Tholstrup Interview

    I interview the Melbourne Football Club’s newest recruit Koltyn Tholstrup to have a chat about his journey from the farm to the Demons, his first few weeks of preseason training, which Dees have impressed him on the track and his aspirations of playing Round 1 ... LISTEN

    Demonland | December 14

  • Latest Podcast  

    PODCAST: Jason Taylor Interview

    I interview the Melbourne Football Club's National Recruitment Manager Jason Taylor to have a chat about our Trade and Draft period, our newest recruits, our recent recruits who have yet to debut as well as those father son prospects on the horizon ... LISTEN

    Demonland | November 27

  • Next Match 

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    Round 03

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    Saturday 30th March 2024
    @ 07:30pm (AO)

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  • Injury List  


      PLAYER INJURY LENGTH
    Jake Lever Knee Test
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    Oliver Sestan Concussion Test
    Steven May Ribs 1 Week
    Lachie Hunter Calf 1 Week
    Daniel Turner Hip 2-3 Weeks
    Charlie Spargo Achilles 2-4 Weeks
    Shane McAdam Hamstring 3-5 Weeks
    Jake Bowey Shoulder 7 Weeks
    Jake Melksham ACL 12-14 Weeks
    Joel Smith Suspension TBA

  • Player of the Year  


        PLAYER VOTES
    1 Christian Petracca 27
    2 Steven May 25
    3 Max Gawn 21
    4 Jack Viney 20
    5 Bayley Fritsch 19
    6 Clayton Oliver 18
    7 Christian Salem 12
    8 Blake Howes 11
    9 Jack Billings 10
    9 Alex Neal-Bullen 10

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