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Macca

What's your best combined Melbourne team from the players that you've seen?

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20 minutes ago, Biffen said:

He played Reserves as Coach as well (post Firsts) but you were probably a soft as butter player who wouldn't like his style.

Disposals meant nothing in the backline in those days.

Some of the most creative bits of play were never given a stat (Harmes slap that won a GF whether in or out).

He was superb in the air and a very good kick.

I'd put him above Febey.

Revisionist stats here are useless the further back we go in time.

Hahaha

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This is a really great topic. I was very fortunate in growing up on the tail end of our club's greatest era. We had some marvellous players and our 1964 premiership side contained many of my heroes that were vastly under-rated such as Wise, Bourke, Crompton, Kenneally, Roet, Jacobs, Massey, Townsend, Emselle, Vagg, Mann and Lord, Outside our club, not many of these would be recognised. Brian "Doc" Roet even played as an amateur. The wilderness years 1965-1986 strangely enough, produced some of the clubs best players and certainly rank in my best team.

B:        Laurie Fowler           Bernie Massey          Barry Bourke


HB:     Brett Lovett               Gary Hardeman        Don Williams

C:        Stan Alves                Greg Wells                Robert Flower

HF:      Brian Wilson             David Schwartz         Garry Lyon

F:         Allen Jakovich          David Neitz               Jeff Farmer

R:        Jim Stynes                Peter Moore                Ron Barassi

IN:       Ross Dillon       Hassa Mann         Nathan Jones        Gerard Healy

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Nobody has mentioned Greg Healy. 

By no means a superstar, but he played under Northey as our Capt. and never shirked an issue. 

A mark and goal he took against Whorethorn in the '90 Elimination Final was actually scary. But he held the mark and kicked straight. 

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1 hour ago, WesternDee said:

This is a really great topic. I was very fortunate in growing up on the tail end of our club's greatest era. We had some marvellous players and our 1964 premiership side contained many of my heroes that were vastly under-rated such as Wise, Bourke, Crompton, Kenneally, Roet, Jacobs, Massey, Townsend, Emselle, Vagg, Mann and Lord, Outside our club, not many of these would be recognised. Brian "Doc" Roet even played as an amateur. The wilderness years 1965-1986 strangely enough, produced some of the clubs best players and certainly rank in my best team.

B:        Laurie Fowler           Bernie Massey          Barry Bourke


HB:     Brett Lovett               Gary Hardeman        Don Williams

C:        Stan Alves                Greg Wells                Robert Flower

HF:      Brian Wilson             David Schwartz         Garry Lyon

F:         Allen Jakovich          David Neitz               Jeff Farmer

R:        Jim Stynes                Peter Moore                Ron Barassi

IN:       Ross Dillon       Hassa Mann         Nathan Jones        Gerard Healy

Hassa Mann before Brain Wilson, any day. Wilson is an emergency. Very selfish player, Wilson. Tassie Johnson instead of Massey. My half backline would be Leahy, Roet, Anderson. And Max Gawn and Gary Baker are/were much greater players than Peter Moore. Brett Lovett would be on my bench, Don Williams in the centre, Greg Wells to the bench along with Hardeman. Jackovich was not as good as Neitz. Jackovich is another emergency. That leaves room for Frank Adams.

My side then would be:

Fowler  Tas Johnson  Brett Lovett

Leahy, Roet, Anderson

Alved, Williams, Flower

Mann, Schwartz, Lyon

Townsend Neitz Farmer

Stynes, Barassi, N. Jones

Int: Adams, Dixon, Wells, Hardeman.

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16 minutes ago, dieter said:

Hassa Mann before Brain Wilson, any day. Wilson is an emergency. Very selfish player, Wilson. Tassie Johnson instead of Massey. My half backline would be Leahy, Roet, Anderson. And Max Gawn and Gary Baker are/were much greater players than Peter Moore. Brett Lovett would be on my bench, Don Williams in the centre, Greg Wells to the bench along with Hardeman. Jackovich was not as good as Neitz. Jackovich is another emergency. That leaves room for Frank Adams.

My side then would be:

Fowler  Tas Johnson  Brett Lovett

Leahy, Roet, Anderson

Alved, Williams, Flower

Mann, Schwartz, Lyon

Townsend Neitz Farmer

Stynes, Barassi, N. Jones

Int: Adams, Dixon, Wells, Hardeman.

You'd have Wells on the bench ?

A comfortably better player than Nathan Jones.

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14 minutes ago, ProDee said:

You'd have Wells on the bench ?

A comfortably better player than Nathan Jones.

Indeed. But of course that's no slight on Jones. The demons have had few better players than Greg Wells.

Edited by binman

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30 minutes ago, dieter said:

Hassa Mann before Brain Wilson, any day. Wilson is an emergency. Very selfish player, Wilson. Tassie Johnson instead of Massey. My half backline would be Leahy, Roet, Anderson. And Max Gawn and Gary Baker are/were much greater players than Peter Moore. Brett Lovett would be on my bench, Don Williams in the centre, Greg Wells to the bench along with Hardeman. Jackovich was not as good as Neitz. Jackovich is another emergency. That leaves room for Frank Adams.

My side then would be:

Fowler  Tas Johnson  Brett Lovett

Leahy, Roet, Anderson

Alved, Williams, Flower

Mann, Schwartz, Lyon

Townsend Neitz Farmer

Stynes, Barassi, N. Jones

Int: Adams, Dixon, Wells, Hardeman.

Jakovich an Emergency...No i cannot have that. 

When he was "on" there were none better...

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well dieter has shifted the time goal posts with 10 of the 64 premiership side.

if everyone has a different time frame there is little benefit of comparison

i think keeping it to post 64 players would be more fruitful.....imo

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Interesting that Jim Stynes appears in most peoples teams as the first ruck.

A magnificent club man, a wonderful man and a very good player but was he the best ruckman?

I would think Jeff White pre injuries and rule changes was more dominant and Strawbs was not too bad. I am sure there are many others.

I suppose it comes down to a point I raised earlier.. are we rewarding consistent great effort or are we looking for that special spark of brilliance that was displayed only on occasion but when they did... fireworks !!. (Jakovich and Travis Johnstone are excellent examples of the latter players.)

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23 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

well dieter has shifted the time goal posts with 10 of the 64 premiership side.

if everyone has a different time frame there is little benefit of comparison

i think keeping it to post 64 players would be more fruitful.....imo

I disagree somewhat dc ... a team containing players from the premiership era combined with players who played later is something that I find quite interesting. 

Of course it might be more difficult for those who could pick that sort of team but that's ok - it's not meant to be an easy task.  Are we going to see your team dc?

'Very old dee' was here a few years back reminiscing about the '48 premiership side (that team included Norm Smith and a number of other top players) here's that team ...

    Melbourne  
Backs Billy Deans     Shane McGrath Stan Rule
H/Backs Geoff Collins   Denis Cordner   Col McLean
Centre Line Len Dockett     George Bickford Max Spittle
H/Forwards     Noel McMahen  Lance Arnold      Bob McKenzie
Forwards Jack Mueller Norm Smith        Eddie Craddock
Rucks/Rover      Don Cordner(c)   Adrian Dullard Alby Rodda
Reserves          Gordon Bowman         Edward Jackson  

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36 minutes ago, Macca said:

I disagree somewhat dc ... a team containing players from the premiership era combined with players who played later is something that I find quite interesting. 

Of course it might be more difficult for those who could pick that sort of team but that's ok - it's not meant to be an easy task.  Are we going to see your team dc?

'Very old dee' was here a few years back reminiscing about the '48 premiership side (that team included Norm Smith and a number of other top players) here's that team ...

    Melbourne  
Backs Billy Deans     Shane McGrath Stan Rule
H/Backs Geoff Collins   Denis Cordner   Col McLean
Centre Line Len Dockett     George Bickford Max Spittle
H/Forwards     Noel McMahen  Lance Arnold      Bob McKenzie
Forwards Jack Mueller Norm Smith        Eddie Craddock
Rucks/Rover      Don Cordner(c)   Adrian Dullard Alby Rodda
Reserves          Gordon Bowman         Edward Jackson  

well of course it would be interesting, macca, it was after all a period of great success.

I just think it would be better suited to a separate thread

if you start mixing up an era of the greatest premiership success probably ever seen, with a period of one of the worst on-field sucesses, you are bound to get chalk and cheese, plus the fact that very few people here would have first hand experience of the premiership era

as to my preferences (post 64) I thought your effort would be pretty close to my choices (lol), with naturally always a few toss-ups (which you yourself said too)

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1 hour ago, daisycutter said:

well of course it would be interesting, macca, it was after all a period of great success.

I just think it would be better suited to a separate thread

if you start mixing up an era of the greatest premiership success probably ever seen, with a period of one of the worst on-field sucesses, you are bound to get chalk and cheese, plus the fact that very few people here would have first hand experience of the premiership era

as to my preferences (post 64) I thought your effort would be pretty close to my choices (lol), with naturally always a few toss-ups (which you yourself said too)

Fair enough.

On the flip side, those here aged around the 18-25 mark would struggle to come up with a decent 22 :ph34r:

 

 

Edited by Macca

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1 hour ago, Macca said:

Fair enough.

On the flip side, those here aged around the 18-25 mark would struggle to come up with a decent 22 :ph34r:

of course, you can't do much about that though without a time machine. i would hope that age group see it more as a learning exercise then.

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24 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

of course, you can't do much about that though without a time machine. i would hope that age group see it more as a learning exercise then.

When I was in that age group (18-25) I was more interested in the here and now and couldn't identify with much of our past at all ... I doubt whether the thinking has changed these days either.  And why should it?

I don't necessarily disagree with your way of thinking dc - it's more so that the thread taps into what we actually saw.  I reckon you have to have seen the players play with these sorts of things ... thus, the whole point of the thread.

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9 minutes ago, Macca said:

When I was in that age group (18-25) I was more interested in the here and now and couldn't identify with much of our past at all ... I doubt whether the thinking has changed these days either.  And why should it?

have to say i was different, macca. couldn't get enough of the history and stories of great past players (still do, lol). all add to the colour of your team (and the game)

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On 01/01/2017 at 2:50 PM, Macca said:

B:        Alan Johnson           Sean Wight               Steven Febey
HB:     Brett Lovett               Gary Hardeman        Rod Grinter
C:        Stan Alves                Greg Wells                Rob Flower
HF:      Brian Wilson             David Schwartz         Garry Lyon
F:         Allen Jakovich          David Neitz               Jeff Farmer
R:        Jim Stynes                Todd Viney                Nathan Jones
IN:       Travis Johnstone       Laurie Fowler           Adem Yze        Jeff White
Emer:   Stephen Tingay,  Russell Robertson,  Matthew Febey,  Danny Hughes,  Ray Biffin,  Greg Parke,  Gerard Healy,  David Williams,  Graham Yeats,  Steven Stretch,  Brad Green,  Cameron Bruce,  Earl Spalding     

Great thread for this time of year and great team - I must be your vintage - first game that I saw was 1970.

Macca, I have to say you have nailed it with almost every player - with two exceptions.

The first is that David Williams should not be included in such a quality list - he struggled to get a game most of his career - albeit he had knee issues. Are you originally from Rochester as well, or were you thinking of Don Williams?

The other significant mistake is underrating Gerard Healy's impact - his final year was unbelievable and that was the year they upgraded Danny Hughes to the B&F because Healy had signed with Sydney.

The rest of the squad we are splitting hairs over - should Strecher's run and long kicking come ahead of Grinter's grunt. I'd also have Glenn Lovett on the emergency list, but such is life.

Very pleased there was no room for Woey or Moore or Ingerson - even on the bench.      

Well done            

 

Edited by Deespicable
literal
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Just now, daisycutter said:

have to say i was different, macca. couldn't get enough of the history and stories of great past players (still do, lol). all add to the colour of your team (and the game)

Well, we're all different aren't we.  It took a while but I've joined your ranks ... but it's not just the MFC and it's not just footy or sport.  Ok, here's a question that will test the knowledge of MFC amateur historians ... you should know the answer dc.

An argument could be mounted that one particular player of ours may well have won 3 consecutive Norm Smith medals (or the equivalent of) if such an honour was awarded back in the day.  The player in question played in our '39,  '40 & '41 premiership teams. 

Now, I've done a fair bit of research - demonwiki, MFC books and other footy books that I have that confirm how well he played, papers of the day etc.  Listed 'first' in the best players across a number of publications with writers of the day also highlighting how well he played in all 3 of the GF wins

Who was he? (use of google or such like is strictly forbidden)

 

I've hijacked my own thread - is that a first?

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2 hours ago, Deespicable said:

Great thread for this time of year and great team - I must be your vintage - first game that I saw was 1970.

Macca, I have to say you have nailed it with almost every player - with two exceptions.

The first is that David Williams should not be included in such a quality list - he struggled to get a game most of his career - albeit he had knee issues. Are you originally from Rochester as well, or were you thinking of Don Williams?

The other significant mistake is underrating Gerard Healy's impact - his final year was unbelievable and that was the year they upgraded Danny Hughes to the B&F because Healy had signed with Sydney.

The rest of the squad we are splitting hairs over - should Strecher's run and long kicking come ahead of Grinter's grunt. I'd also have Glenn Lovett on the emergency list, but such is life.

Very pleased there was no room for Woey or Moore or Ingerson - even on the bench.      

Well done      

If I had my time over again I probably would have included Gerard Healy but I have to leave the team as it is.  Tingay should be in too but again, the team has to stand. 

As for David Williams - he played some really good games for us against good opposition and he was a bit of a favourite of mine despite not having a long career with us. 

He had great hands and led well to position (when he was fit enough to play) He could kick a goal too -  got bags of 9, 7, 5 (twice), 4 (4 times), and 3 (10 times) Not a bad effort for 67 games.

Edited by Macca

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1 hour ago, Macca said:

An argument could be mounted that one particular player of ours may well have won 3 consecutive Norm Smith medals (or the equivalent of) if such an honour was awarded back in the day.  The player in question played in our '39,  '40 & '41 premiership teams. 

Who was he? (use of google or such like is strictly forbidden)

One of the illustrious wearers of the #12, Macca? 

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4 minutes ago, Tim said:

Or Percy Beames?

Good get Tim ... it's just my opinion of course but the evidence is quite compelling.

He was in the team of the century but I'm not sure that he's as highly regarded as he should be.

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On 1/1/2017 at 2:50 PM, Macca said:

Here's mine ...

B:        Alan Johnson           Sean Wight               Steven Febey

HB:     Brett Lovett               Gary Hardeman        Rod Grinter

C:        Stan Alves                Greg Wells                Rob Flower

HF:      Brian Wilson             David Schwartz         Garry Lyon

F:         Allen Jakovich          David Neitz               Jeff Farmer

R:        Jim Stynes                Todd Viney                Nathan Jones

IN:       Travis Johnstone       Laurie Fowler           Adem Yze        Jeff White


Emer:   Stephen Tingay,  Russell Robertson,  Matthew Febey,  Danny Hughes,  Ray Biffin,  Greg Parke,  Gerard Healy,  David Williams,  Graham Yeats,  Steven Stretch,  Brad Green,  Cameron Bruce,  Earl Spalding     
            

Not too many differences Macca,

B,         Alan Johnson           Sean Wight               Matthew Whelan

HB:     Brett Lovett               Gary Hardeman        Adem Yze

C:        Stan Alves                Greg Wells                Rob Flower

HF:      Brian Wilson             David Schwartz         Garry Lyon

F:         Allen Jakovich          David Neitz               Jeff Farmer

R:        Jim Stynes                Gerard Healy             Todd Viney

IN:       Stephen Tingay       Steven Febey           Nathan Jones       
Earl Spalding

 

I found full-back the most difficult. Tossed up between Wight, Hughes and Biffin. Even Frawley before he put the cue in the rack has claims. All good, none great. While the heart said to "Go the Biff", Wight probably held a spot in better sides. Yze's best seems largely forgotten but he swept across half back brilliantly and lead the league for intercepts marks for a year or two and used the ball superbly. The type of player we've been looking for for our current team.

Matty Whelan was skilled and fearless. Good ball user and better in the air than my next choices Fowler & S. Febey. Fowler was a great defender though but if I overlook him for the back pocket then I can't fit him in elsewhere. S. Febey was quite versatile.

Healy & Tingay's inclusions speak for themselves. Would love to see Tingay in today's footy. Prototype midfielder. I included Spalding as I loved his courage, his versatility and his amazing marking.

If forced to include a second ruck I'd have gone for Strawbs at the expense of Spalding (who could pinch hit in ruck). Great mark, excellent at the art of ruckwork and positioned himself around the ground superbly. Admittedly questionable disposal skills. After one year in the limelight I'd probably have Max just behind him.

My backline is probably a bit short. My forward line looks great on paper but I can't imagine how it could possibly function with Jako clearing everyone out.
 

That centreline though........... wow. And you could pull in a second centreline from within the team of Johnson, Wilson & Tingay that would be almost as good.

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First year obsessed was 84, so...

 

B:        Sean Wight          Anthony Ingerson  Matthew Whelan

HB:     Brett Lovett           David Neitz        Alan Johnson

C:        Stephen Tingay   Glenn Lovett      Robbie Flower

HF:      Russell Robertson     David Schwarz     Garry Lyon

F:         Darren Bennett        Allen Jakovich        Jeff Farmer

R:        Jim Stynes                Todd Viney           Nathan Jones

IN:       Brian Wilson     Brad Green    Adem Yze   Max Gawn

 

a team lacking serious pace in the middle and forward, but they aren't playing anyone....


 

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I'm in the unfortunate position of only really having followed seriously from start of 2000. Yep, by the end of my first 'proper' season I thought this footy fan thign was a pretty good ride. Also means I can't legitimately include the likes of Stynes, Viney Snr, even Febey would be unreasonable, given I didn't see almost his whole career. Although I do feel like I can include Farmer, because he had so much visibility and obviously continued to play AFL, though not with us.

Aside from a lean period to choose from, the other problem is that we've had so many players who only delivered their best for relatively short periods, rather than over a whole career. Davey, Green, Moloney, Bruce, Johnstone, Frawley, Sylvia, Rivers, Woewodin, Whelan, Powell, Brown, and on.

So, I've tried to look at the bright side and consider which of our current team would right now, not 'on potential', be in our best 22 since 2000.

Jessie Hogan, as a tall forward behind only Neitz. When was the last time we had a consistent 40+ goals key forward apart from these two?

Tom McDonald. The competition as tall defenders being Nicholson, Carroll, Holland?

Neville Jetta as a shutdown small defender. Another one with not a lot of direct competition, though maybe more due to injuries (full respect to Whelan, and Bartram).

Max Gawn over Jeff White.

In the midfield obviously Jones, but then both Viney and Tyson actually earn a spot. This might shock some, but Tyson compares favourably against most of our midfielders of the last 15 seasons. Viney... well, it is easy to be distracted by what he may be about to become, and lose sight of the fact he is already one of our top 21st-century mids.

No doubt other young players show promise, but it would be premature to have them in ahead of many of the recent quality players. But there's a real prospect that soon the bulk of our 21st-century best-22 might be playing together in one terrifying squad!

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Well Dieter you certainly got me on the Brian Wilson one. Brian always had a fairly good opinion of himself and I really don't know what I was thinking when I didn't put Hassa in his spot. However I'll stick to my team as the best I've seen IMO. Another honourable mention should be made to Greg Parke who was a great player for us and certainly was under-rated (IMO).

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