Are we better after trade period?

[buck_nekkid 5,460]

The list has now been turned over.  We have seem some big (and not so big) names moved out, and some 'prospects' and talent moved in.

Do you think we are better off?  Are we better off now, or in 3-4 years?

I think we have really rolled the dice on the youngsters we already have in the shed, and really done well adding Milkshake and Lewis.  These make up for a lot of the experience moved out (Dawes, Grimes), but may add class.  The draft seems to be about hail mary choices and strategic backups.

Personally, I think we are going to be immediately better off, and also have set ourselves up to be better off in 3-4 years.  I think it turned out to be an excellent off-season, overall (I think the Lewis trade turned it from 'good' to 'excellent').

[Ron Burgundy 8,584]

Absolutely. 

[Yossarian 1,808]

[JTR 2,627]

IN:  

Jake Melksham (in effect)
Jordan Lewis
Michael Hibberd
Pat McKenna
Mitch Hannan
Dion Johnstone
Lachlan Filipovic
Declan Keilty
Tim Smith

OUT:

Jack Grimes 
Matt Jones 
Dean Terlich 
Lynden Dunn 
Chris Dawes 
Ben Newton 
Viv Michie 
Max King 

 

Looking good to me

 

 

 

[Demons11 6,404]

The team definitely looks better on paper and the depth is great also. 

I still think we are 2 years away from being a seriously good football side playing for a top 4 spot. 

 

[Dee-licious 1,800]

I'm going to take out Melksham for the comparison as I am thinking we are not as strong as we were - hoping to convince myself otherwise. 

Jordan Lewis > Michie - Yep I'll just leave that one here. 
Michael Hibberd > Dean Terlich - No explanation here. 
Pat McKenna = Grimes - when you factor in age, I dont think we have lost anything here. 
Mitch Hannan > Ben Newton - felt that Hannan had a better 2's season than Newton did and offers a little more than Ben. 
Dion Johnstone < Matt Jones - This isnt a great like for like, but Dion is a project, we know what we were going to get from Matt. 
Lachlan Filipovic = Max King - both developing ruckman, Lachlan is younger so hopefully will surpass King 
Declan Keilty < Dunn - he is younger so there is some upside, but based on this year, Dunn had the better year in the VFL. 
Tim Smith < Chris Dawes - While Smith plays a different role, I wonder if he is better than what Dawes would have given us? 

 

I count it as 3 better, 2 equal, and 3 less then but age offers upside. While I think 6 players were just shuffling deck chairs, the 2 big in's of Lewis and Hibberd are seriously above what we had. I'm happy to take this year as a win. 
 

[Mickey 4,172]

9 minutes ago, Dee-licious said:

I'm going to take out Melksham for the comparison as I am thinking we are not as strong as we were - hoping to convince myself otherwise. 

Jordan Lewis > Michie - Yep I'll just leave that one here. 
Michael Hibberd > Dean Terlich - No explanation here. 
Pat McKenna = Grimes - when you factor in age, I dont think we have lost anything here. 
Mitch Hannan > Ben Newton - felt that Hannan had a better 2's season than Newton did and offers a little more than Ben. 
Dion Johnstone < Matt Jones - This isnt a great like for like, but Dion is a project, we know what we were going to get from Matt. 
Lachlan Filipovic = Max King - both developing ruckman, Lachlan is younger so hopefully will surpass King 
Declan Keilty < Dunn - he is younger so there is some upside, but based on this year, Dunn had the better year in the VFL. 
Tim Smith < Chris Dawes - While Smith plays a different role, I wonder if he is better than what Dawes would have given us? 

 

I count it as 3 better, 2 equal, and 3 less then but age offers upside. While I think 6 players were just shuffling deck chairs, the 2 big in's of Lewis and Hibberd are seriously above what we had. I'm happy to take this year as a win. 
 

Simply for the fact Smith can get on the park, I'd take him before dawes

[DistrACTION Jackson 6,397]

1 minute ago, Mickey said:

Simply for the fact Smith can get on the park, I'd take him before dawes

And he can mark....

[The Chazz 4,077]

27 minutes ago, Dee-licious said:

I'm going to take out Melksham for the comparison as I am thinking we are not as strong as we were - hoping to convince myself otherwise. 

Jordan Lewis > Michie - Yep I'll just leave that one here. 
Michael Hibberd > Dean Terlich - No explanation here. 
Pat McKenna = Grimes - when you factor in age, I dont think we have lost anything here. 
Mitch Hannan > Ben Newton - felt that Hannan had a better 2's season than Newton did and offers a little more than Ben. 
Dion Johnstone < Matt Jones - This isnt a great like for like, but Dion is a project, we know what we were going to get from Matt. 
Lachlan Filipovic = Max King - both developing ruckman, Lachlan is younger so hopefully will surpass King 
Declan Keilty < Dunn - he is younger so there is some upside, but based on this year, Dunn had the better year in the VFL. 
Tim Smith < Chris Dawes - While Smith plays a different role, I wonder if he is better than what Dawes would have given us? 

 

I count it as 3 better, 2 equal, and 3 less then but age offers upside. While I think 6 players were just shuffling deck chairs, the 2 big in's of Lewis and Hibberd are seriously above what we had. I'm happy to take this year as a win. 
 

Only ones I disagree with are the McKenna/Grimes & Hannan/Newton.

Just adding Lewis has improved our list.  He is so much better than any of the players that we lost.  I'd also have Hibberd level (at a minimum) with the best of the players we lost.

As mentioned above, we clearly believe that our young players, in particular those selected at the top end, are what's going to take this footy club to "contender" status in the coming years.  Ballsy decision, but I'm supporting it.

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,381]

I guess this is where we draw the line which closes off the Roos era. Who remains that was brought to the club before the Roos era began? In no particular order:

Jones, Garland, Watts, Gawn, Hogan, Viney, Spencer, Jetta, Kent, T McDonald, Pedersen, Trengove.

I think those 12 players are the only ones (corrections are welcome). If nothing else, each of the above should be congratulated. Each has offered enough to convince the footy department that they should be kept.

Edited November 28, 2016 by La Dee-vina Comedia
typo

[martin 727]

Casey will be significantly weaker in the short term.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

1 hour ago, Dee-licious said:

I'm going to take out Melksham for the comparison as I am thinking we are not as strong as we were - hoping to convince myself otherwise. 

Jordan Lewis > Michie - Yep I'll just leave that one here. 
Michael Hibberd > Dean Terlich - No explanation here. 
Pat McKenna = Grimes - when you factor in age, I dont think we have lost anything here. 
Mitch Hannan > Ben Newton - felt that Hannan had a better 2's season than Newton did and offers a little more than Ben. 
Dion Johnstone < Matt Jones - This isnt a great like for like, but Dion is a project, we know what we were going to get from Matt. 
Lachlan Filipovic = Max King - both developing ruckman, Lachlan is younger so hopefully will surpass King 
Declan Keilty < Dunn - he is younger so there is some upside, but based on this year, Dunn had the better year in the VFL. 
Tim Smith < Chris Dawes - While Smith plays a different role, I wonder if he is better than what Dawes would have given us? 

 

I count it as 3 better, 2 equal, and 3 less then but age offers upside. While I think 6 players were just shuffling deck chairs, the 2 big in's of Lewis and Hibberd are seriously above what we had. I'm happy to take this year as a win. 
 

That's a fair assessment.

[Salems Lot 2,365]

Hi DL

You need to include Melksham.  Whilst he is not an "in" this year he is a bit like a guy who did his knee in the off season and lost a year.  He has a proven track record and when playing at his best is a seriously good inclusion for us.  With him as an extra in we are seriously ahead.

 

[FarNorthernD 5,839]

53 minutes ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

I guess this is where we draw the line which closes off the Roos era. Who remains that was brought to the club before the Roos era began? In no particular order:

Jones, Garland, Watts, Gawn, Hogan, Viney, Spencer, Jetta, Kent, T McDonald, Pedersen, Trengove.

I think those 12 players are the only ones (corrections are welcome). If nothing else, each of the above should be congratulated. Each has offered enough to convince the footy department that they should be kept.

 

Pedersen is the biggest surprise of that lot. Good lesson in the value of persistence. 

[jnrmac 18,914]

4 minutes ago, JTR said:

IN:  

Jake Melksham (in effect)
Jordan Lewis
Michael Hibberd
Pat McKenna
Mitch Hannan
Dion Johnstone
Lachlan Filipovic
Declan Keilty
Tim Smith

OUT:

Jack Grimes 
Matt Jones 
Dean Terlich 
Lynden Dunn 
Chris Dawes 
Ben Newton 
Viv Michie 
Max King 

Looking good to me

I'd say that is 3 into our best 22 and not one of the outs is/was comfortably in our best 22.

So you would have to say we have improved on paper.

[praha 10,267]

2 hours ago, Dee-licious said:

I'm going to take out Melksham for the comparison as I am thinking we are not as strong as we were - hoping to convince myself otherwise. 

Jordan Lewis > Michie - Yep I'll just leave that one here. 
Michael Hibberd > Dean Terlich - No explanation here. 
Pat McKenna = Grimes - when you factor in age, I dont think we have lost anything here. 
Mitch Hannan > Ben Newton - felt that Hannan had a better 2's season than Newton did and offers a little more than Ben. 
Dion Johnstone < Matt Jones - This isnt a great like for like, but Dion is a project, we know what we were going to get from Matt. 
Lachlan Filipovic = Max King - both developing ruckman, Lachlan is younger so hopefully will surpass King 
Declan Keilty < Dunn - he is younger so there is some upside, but based on this year, Dunn had the better year in the VFL. 
Tim Smith < Chris Dawes - While Smith plays a different role, I wonder if he is better than what Dawes would have given us? 

 

I count it as 3 better, 2 equal, and 3 less then but age offers upside. While I think 6 players were just shuffling deck chairs, the 2 big in's of Lewis and Hibberd are seriously above what we had. I'm happy to take this year as a win. 
 

How do you gauge what metric the greater-than, equal-to and less-than sit at? For example, is Lewis further ahead of Mitchie than, say, Dawes is to Smith? We may have lost some players and replaced them with players that are further away or may not be as good *right now*, but the bigger picture suggests we've definitely improved.

Let's rank each player out of, say, 10, and use your analysis of like-for-like swaps for players brought in and players lost.

Lewis (8.5) > Michie (1)

Hibberd (6) > Terlich (3)

McKenna (4) = Grimes (4)

Hannan (4.5) > Newton (3)

Johnstone (2) < Jones (4.5)

Filipovic (3) = King (3)

Keilty (2.5) < Dunn (5)

Smith (3.5) < Dawes (4)

 

So:

Bringing in: 34

Losing: 27.5

 

That's not considering that I feel Smith is an improvement on Dawes.

Edited November 29, 2016 by praha

[jnrmac 18,914]

2 hours ago, billy2803 said:

Just adding Lewis has improved our list.  He is so much better than any of the players that we lost.  I'd also have Hibberd level (at a minimum) with the best of the players we lost.

It improves it several ways.

1. He is a good player

2. It takes pressure off our next rung such as Tyson, Viney etc. That is a big help when you have a young team and part of the reason why we have been in the wilderness for a decade - lack of experience and quality in the 25-30 age bracket.

3. lewis will teach the younger players the good habits and game skills required to be successful.

It really is a great coup.

[beelzebub 22,225]

3 hours ago, JTR said:

IN:  

Jake Melksham (in effect)
Jordan Lewis
Michael Hibberd
Pat McKenna
Mitch Hannan
Dion Johnstone
Lachlan Filipovic
Declan Keilty
Tim Smith

OUT:

Jack Grimes 
Matt Jones 
Dean Terlich 
Lynden Dunn 
Chris Dawes 
Ben Newton 
Viv Michie 
Max King 

 

Looking good to me

 

 

 

yep. Doesnt require too much over thinking . Just the overall balance and depth has increased

Lewis the cherry on top

[The Chazz 4,077]

35 minutes ago, praha said:

How do you gauge what metric the greater-than, equal-to and less-than sit at? For example, is Lewis further ahead of Mitchie than, say, Dawes is to Smith? We may have lost some players and replaced them with players that are further away or may not be as good *right now*, but the bigger picture suggests we've definitely improved.

Let's rank each player out of, say, 10, and use your analysis of like-for-like swaps for players brought in and players lost.

Lewis (8.5) > Michie (1)

Hibberd (6) > Terlich (3)

McKenna (4) = Grimes (4)

Hannan (4.5) > Newton (3)

Johnstone (2) < Jones (4.5)

Filipovic (3) = King (3)

Keilty (2.5) < Dunn (5)

Smith (3.5) < Dawes (4)

 

So:

Bringing in: 34

Losing: 27.5

 

That's not considering that I feel Smith is an improvement on Dawes.

Can you please tell me how you can give McKenna more than Grimes, and Hannan getting more than Newton?

It's bordering on "new pick-up hysteria".

[DeeSpencer 23,061]

1 hour ago, martin said:

Casey will be significantly weaker in the short term.

Not sure about that. If you use the above from Dee-licious:

Jordan Lewis > Michie . 
Michael Hibberd > Dean Terlich 
Pat McKenna = Grimes
Mitch Hannan > Ben Newton  
Melksham > Matt Jones
Lachlan Filipovic = Max King 
Declan Keilty < Dunn
Tim Smith - Chris Dawes 
Plus Dion Johnstone

The addition of Hannan, McKenna, Keilty and Smith instead of a bunch of kids means Casey will have a really good group of AFL listed players each week.

They'll now have to go out and replace Smith, Keilty and to a lesser extent McInerny (he only played seniors at the end of the year) but that can be done. 

Jordan Moncrief was playing well in the VFL 2's, he could replace Keilty. Mitch King being fit could replace McInerny and another year of development in to Hullett and Weid could cover Smith. 

I assume Casey now have some shopping money and an increase in reputation to go find some mature VFL players. Could be mids or smalls at either end instead of talls, as long as they get quality to go alongside the AFL guys they'll be in a good spot.
 

[DeeSpencer 23,061]

25 minutes ago, billy2803 said:

Can you please tell me how you can give McKenna more than Grimes, and Hannan getting more than Newton?

It's bordering on "new pick-up hysteria".

Grimes - 2 games, 1 good, 1 bad, never factored again. 2 mediocre games. From an AFL perspective the bar is very low to replace their output. Both were good players at VFL level but so was Hannan - despite limited training, and McKenna had a solid season in the NEAFL and should be above average in the VFL.

[Stretch Johnson 2,568]

We are clearly better on paper.

Removed players that were not best 22, added a few that are, and a couple more that could be. 

Smith and Hannan are also more dangerous than any we have delisted.

 

Edited November 29, 2016 by Stretch Johnson

[martin 727]

6 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

Not sure about that. If you use the above from Dee-licious:

Jordan Lewis > Michie . 
Michael Hibberd > Dean Terlich 
Pat McKenna = Grimes
Mitch Hannan > Ben Newton  
Melksham > Matt Jones
Lachlan Filipovic = Max King 
Declan Keilty < Dunn
Tim Smith - Chris Dawes 
Plus Dion Johnstone

The addition of Hannan, McKenna, Keilty and Smith instead of a bunch of kids means Casey will have a really good group of AFL listed players each week.

They'll now have to go out and replace Smith, Keilty and to a lesser extent McInerny (he only played seniors at the end of the year) but that can be done. 

Jordan Moncrief was playing well in the VFL 2's, he could replace Keilty. Mitch King being fit could replace McInerny and another year of development in to Hullett and Weid could cover Smith. 

I assume Casey now have some shopping money and an increase in reputation to go find some mature VFL players. Could be mids or smalls at either end instead of talls, as long as they get quality to go alongside the AFL guys they'll be in a good spot.
 

Whilst Grimes, Dunn, Terlich, Michie, Jones, Newton and Dawes were not particularly up to AFL standard in the end, they were significant contributors in a strong Casey outfit. Added to that, given there is a chance that Smith and/or Keilty might get some senior action, it is a group that is hard to replace. McInerney further weakens the equation. Whilst positive for the Demons, the jury is out on Filopovic, Hannan, Johnstone and, to some extent McKenna. Don't get me wrong. I think the club has done a magnificent job with the comings and goings - wouldn't have kept one Casey delist. Good outcome for Melbourne, not so good for the Scorpions.

[praha 10,267]

53 minutes ago, billy2803 said:

Can you please tell me how you can give McKenna more than Grimes, and Hannan getting more than Newton?

It's bordering on "new pick-up hysteria".

They're both still playing AFL?

[binman 37,798]