POST MATCH DISCUSSION - Round 11

[Skin Deeamond 339]

3 hours ago, Rusty Nails said:

Apart from the mark on 50 in the last where we were level or just behind and he kicked to the pocket to Dawes and someone else. Went down the other end for a score i think. Don't know who i was angrier with, Tracc or Dawes and whoever else lead there. Dumb footy all round. We were in it up to our necks at that point.

The other part that annoyed me was the celebration after Jones's running goal in the 3rd. You would think we had won or something. Jonesy son i would've thought you'd learned by now. Settle em quickly tell em to head back to their places, head down "we've got a job to do fellas....no celebrating yet!". Hawks pretty much took over from there. Not saying this was solely responsible but will we ever learn?

Dawes lead to the the pocket could well have been to draw the opposition backs out there and allow trengove to mark unopposed directly in front. 

[Lucifers Hero 36,985]

10 hours ago, biggestred said:

Wish we would inflict pain when we tackle as well as just grabbing blokes.

Have a look at some of Petracca's tackles yesterday.  He ragdolls them!   Also the way the whole team hunted Mitchell at every opportunity - Vince had him down a few times.  And my favourite when Evans ground Frawley into the dust in the first quarter.  Frawley was face down and Kent wouldn't let him up as if to say:  "take that you traitor..."  Hunt did a bit of damage as well.

I'm sure a few Hawks went home feeling battered and bruised.

Edited June 4, 2016 by Lucifer's Hero

[Biffen 12,298]

13 hours ago, Moonshadow said:

If you think post count means jack you are a fool 

My whole identity and sense of self worth is derived from Demonland and the opinions of the tragics on it.

Thanks for demeaning and belittling my values.

It's not like I have ever denigrated your collection of Spandau Ballet paraphernalia.

[John Crow Batty 8,226]

6 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Have a look at some of Petracca's tackles yesterday.  He ragdolls them!   Also the way the whole team hunted Mitchell at every opportunity - Vince had him down a few times.  And my favourite when Evans ground Frawley into the dust in the first quarter.  Frawley was face down and Evans wouldn't let him up as if to say:  "take that you traitor..."  Hunt did a bit of damage as well.

I'm sure a few Hawks went home feeling battered and bruised.

Evans was delisted in 2014.

[Lucifers Hero 36,985]

4 minutes ago, america de cali said:

Evans was delisted in 2014.

Sorry, meant to say Kent...still on 1st cup of coffee...will fix post!

[Lucifers Hero 36,985]

Some NBA idiot has a go at our Bernie on twitter saying: 'Bernie is garbage'! 

Loved that Big Tex Walker weighed in to support his mate!

http://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/bernie-vince-fires-back-at-australian-nba-player-joe-ingles-on-twitter/news-story/4a182a0b94ffd66e24e7a543c68a0e2d

[Gorgoroth 12,307]

I'll be interested to see how we go against the, in 9 weeks time. 

I liked Frost down back, he did try a few kicks he shouldn't have in the wet and Omac as a third tall is better than as a second tall.

[Wiseblood 24,636]

Just now, AdamFarr said:

The Demonland group-think surrounding Omac's form is a little perplexing. The rhetoric continues to be that he looks 'way off it'. He's not winning every contest and he makes a few errors here and there, but so does Jesse Hogan. If you compare Omac's start to Frawley's start, you could plot a similar trajectory I'd reckon.

Playing Oscar in the 2s isn't going to speed up his development, it's going to slow it. I'm glad the FD seem to agree, as they continue to play him at the highest level.

You're a perplexing poster yourself, Adam.  I do agree with the above, yet I find it interesting that you're happy to get behind O Mac, yet Dawes comes in for one game and you take the time to smash him, even though he worked his backside off all day and straightened us up a bit.  Would have thought you could give the fella some time seeing as it was his first game back for the year.

[Bitter but optimistic 21,181]

54 minutes ago, Biffen said:

My whole identity and sense of self worth is derived from Demonland and the opinions of the tragics on it.

Thanks for demeaning and belittling my values.

It's not like I have ever denigrated your collection of Spandau Ballet paraphernalia.

Your sarcasm focused on one of the great music groups of the last century demonstrates your total lack of good taste 

[Satyriconhome 9,982]

15 minutes ago, Bitter but optimistic said:

Your sarcasm focused on one of the great music groups of the last century demonstrates your total lack of good taste 

True    but to cut a long story short    it was gold

[Demon Jack 6,272]

57 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Some NBA idiot has a go at our Bernie on twitter saying: 'Bernie is garbage'! 

Loved that Big Tex Walker weighed in to support his mate!

http://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/bernie-vince-fires-back-at-australian-nba-player-joe-ingles-on-twitter/news-story/4a182a0b94ffd66e24e7a543c68a0e2d

Check out Bernie's response!

 

[chook fowler 18,174]

We are not getting enough value from our small forwards - Garlett, Kent, Harmes and Kennedy. It's a problem that needs to be addressed,

[Demon Dynasty 15,223]

1 hour ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Sorry, meant to say ''Kent"...still on 1st cup of coffee...will fix post!

Lucifer the kids will be up now! o.O

[Demon Dynasty 15,223]

1 hour ago, Biffen said:

My whole identity and sense of self worth is derived from Demonland and the opinions of the tragics on it.

Thanks for demeaning and belittling my values.

'It's not like I have ever denigrated your collection of Spandau Ballet paraphernalia.'

I wouldn't be so forgiving Biff

50 minutes ago, Bitter but optimistic said:

Your sarcasm focused on one of the great music groups of the last century demonstrates your total lack of good taste 

Yes, nothing like some good 80s pop lyrics from a Spandau et. al. to get your tastebuds going!

...."These are my salad days, slowly being eaten away"....

o.O

[Roger Mellie 3,485]

I thought Frost handled the conditions superbly. He played like it was a dry day. He burned off his opponents coming out of the backline. It was very impressive. The serious shortcomings are his kicking and decision making. 

[xarronn 380]

15 hours ago, waynewussell said:

It should be an embarrassment to the umpire panel and the AFL that the opposing coach has gone on record as saying the head high situation has to change. Clarkson says that the ducking is a bad result for the game and it could be changed with a flick of the fingers (or a flick of a switch for dumbar%$ umpires who don't have clue! Drop the stupid P&ricks!)

Didn't get to see the game and I'm working my way through the post game thread before I watch the replay. The matter of ducking has been brought up several times already. My post is not related to yesterdays game.

1. The rules of the game state that tackles above the shoulders are not legal

2. Ducking is different to dropping at the knees

3. The rules allow ducking to be penalised and it is.

4. Dropping at the knees is not against the rules

5. Umpires currently have no option if point 4 brings about point 1.

6.  If Clarko doesn't like his players doing that, how come the master coach hasn't eliminated it from their game?

7. Bottom Line: Umpires carry the can for many things, let's not blame them for applying the rules.

[Webber 9,976]

1 hour ago, Wiseblood said:

You're a perplexing poster yourself, Adam.  I do agree with the above, yet I find it interesting that you're happy to get behind O Mac, yet Dawes comes in for one game and you take the time to smash him, even though he worked his backside off all day and straightened us up a bit.  Would have thought you could give the fella some time seeing as it was his first game back for the year.

Just what I was thinking Wiseblood. There's a certain lack of objectivity in his polarity of opinions on Dawes and OMac. I thought they both played their roles yesterday. OMac is tracking very well relative to his height and age, but will take time, and it's time that the selectors are clearly prepared to give him. Dawes mobility and physicality is going to be a big boost to our structure if he can stay on the park for the rest of the season. 

[Roger Mellie 3,485]

5 minutes ago, xarronn said:

Didn't get to see the game and I'm working my way through the post game thread before I watch the replay. The matter of ducking has been brought up several times already. My post is not related to yesterdays game.

1. The rules of the game state that tackles above the shoulders are not legal

2. Ducking is different to dropping at the knees

3. The rules allow ducking to be penalised and it is.

4. Dropping at the knees is not against the rules

5. Umpires currently have no option if point 4 brings about point 1.

6.  If Clarko doesn't like his players doing that, how come the master coach hasn't eliminated it from their game?

7. Bottom Line: Umpires carry the can for many things, let's not blame them for applying the rules.

Couldn't they have pinged that first gamer for acting?

 

[Razor 274]

I think if we were to win the game we needed to be up at 3/4 time with scoreboard pressure and hang on.  Eg Their last goal in time on 3rd quarter was very disappointing.  We need to be able to close them down when we have the lead.

[titan_uranus 22,220]

9 hours ago, AdamFarr said:

The Demonland group-think surrounding Omac's form is a little perplexing. The rhetoric continues to be that he looks 'way off it'. He's not winning every contest and he makes a few errors here and there, but so does Jesse Hogan. If you compare Omac's start to Frawley's start, you could plot a similar trajectory I'd reckon.

Playing Oscar in the 2s isn't going to speed up his development, it's going to slow it. I'm glad the FD seem to agree, as they continue to play him at the highest level.

Groupthink? Get off it. Some people disagree with you, AF.

We only need to go back to the Bailey era for a reminder that not every kid develops quickly when playing AFL over VFL.

8 hours ago, CBDees said:

Just looked at the AFL statistics from yesterday's game which are quite telling:

a) Both teams had similar possessions yet we had sixty extra handballs vs their sixty extra kicks

b) The Hawks had twice as many marks as us (80 vs 40)

c) The Hawks had over forty extra tackles to us ( and 26 vs our 8 inside 50 tackles )

This seems to send a message about "kicking the ball" and "forward pressure"!

Agreed, though IIRC (and I may not), we improved the kick-handball ratio as the game went on.

[Lil_red_fire_engine 10,134]

9 hours ago, P-man said:

Not a good example of Demonland groupthink. If anything, posters are split down the middle on whether he should be playing or not.

He shouldn't be, imo. His presence in the side is costly at the minute. Slow, easily outbodied and outpositioned, and panicked with the ball. One McDonald in the side is enough for the time being. Two of them is doing my tightness in the chest no favours.

But it's a pointless debate because he will be selected. I'd even expect Harmes to be selected again despite a screaming case for him to have a spell. It is youth or bust at the minute.

The bolded are the bits I find as group think not those that want him out but the consistent justification that he is easily outbodied and outpositioned. If I had the time I would love someone to look at how many contests he has been in Brisbane, Port, Hawthorn and what % he has actually lost. I think this is one of those cases where one or two stick out (not surprising for a 19 year old) and then it appears he loses a lot. 

 

 

[xarronn 380]

15 hours ago, AdamFarr said:

I thought we were really inefficient going forward in the first quarter and we played some pretty dumb footy. But inexperience will do that. We needed to adjust our game to wet weather play. That's why we were leading the CPs and clearances but failed to lead on the scoreboard or even convert that dominance to scoring shots of any kind.

If you were to look at the scoreboard today, you might be forgiven (if you were a little thick) for thinking the Hawks poor kicking meant the result was a lot closer, but I actually think we were a lot closer on the day than a three goal margin.

 

Haven't seen the replay yet, and that's exactly what I was wondering, (although I don't think I am a little thick). This is the first post I've read referring to it. The difference in scoring shots paints a different picture to all the comments I have read on the post game thread up to this point

Can someone explain why there was such a difference if we were more than competitive?

[Roost It 1,434]

Its the best we've played all year

[Deeoldfart 7,712]

We played probably the best / most professional outfit in the competition, after a 6 day break and a road trip to Alice Springs, and with no Viney. Brayshaw and Salem.  I'm not making excuses, and I hate losing as much as anyone, but I take some heart from that game.  Still a work in progress, but the future looks rosy for our team of kids.

[Demon Dynasty 15,223]

8 hours ago, Skin D said:

Dawes lead to the the pocket could well have been to draw the opposition backs out there and allow trengove to mark unopposed directly in front. 

That's a nice romantic view of it Skin. But it was 2 players running to the same pocket. I understand one of them heading there, but surely they should be splitting and one of them heading to a more dangerous spot? If Trenners was there as you say, i would be even more angry. Are you sure he was anywhere near the goal square? Would need to re-watch this as i can't recall Trenners being alone in the goal square.