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picket fence

Jimmy Toumpas (Coming of age)?

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If he becomes a solid member of our 22 for the next 10 years i will be stoked. Because at the start of the year I must about I didn't expect him to.

It is one less mid we will need to find in the off season. If Petracca and Trengove can step in as well we will be placed well to really step up as a team next year.

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You call Picket Fence a tool, then make this inane comment.

Get hold of a mirror and have a good hard look at yourself.

To be fair, Daz was referring to one of the Cro-magnon types from Big Footy who holds Toump wholly & solely responsible for the loss and the last goal.

Not in the best taste, but if you'd read this BF moron's post it would make more sense.

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I think this will mean a lot to jimmy, he will now believe he's an AFL standard player

You mean this thread? I'm sure he was rapt after having a read :)

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You mean this thread? I'm sure he was rapt after having a read :)

I wonder what Jimmy thinks of Fence?

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Outside midfielder’s also generally take longer to adapt to senior AFL footy. There are a lot more physical contents and less time and space. Even more difficult when you are trying to slot into a battling midfield that’s not overly skilled to start with.

Much smoother transition for an inside mid. Usually stronger and used to battling for contested ball. Old mate Wallace (on Future Stars) reckons the success rate for inside mids taken high in the draft is something like 85%.

Can’t remember what the success rate for outside mids was concluded to be, but it was a reasonable drop off for that type of player (and a further drop off for kpp’s).

As I’ve said elsewhere, the encouraging thing as far as Jimmy is concerned, is that the strengths that made him a standout as a junior, have slowly started to translate to his game in senior footy over the last month or so.

Hard running, work ethic and very good disposal by foot. Development for him is continually using those strengths in game and mitigating the weaker areas of his game (disposal under pressure, defensive running, contested footy).

Those weaknesses were there in his game as a junior and clearly targeted areas for development now. The majority of these kids don’t come in as the finished package and by rights should take some time. At the very least I’m seeing some improvement in his contested ball, it’s up to the coaches to help him really improve in the other areas.

There’s a lot of emphasis on Wines (whose output has been fairly freakish) from the 2012 draft, but if you compare how Toumpas is tracking, relative to the other 2012 draftees, I’m comfortable with how Toumpas is going.

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Before the Saints game, Toump's best game was against the Cats at SS in 2013. It will be interesting to see how he goes this time around.

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I wonder what Jimmy thinks of Fence?

I would be really surprised if he know he exists or gives a stuff about anything we say.

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Free agency is more likely than not to be lowered to 6 years IMO and probably within the next 3. So it wouldn't surprise me to see Toumpas sign for 3 years. If he holds his current form for the next 11 weeks I'd be comfortable with the club giving him a 3 year deal on reasonable money and getting him locked away.

That's a terrible justification for giving him a three year contract, FYI. Assuming free agency does get dropped to six years, then clubs lose an awful lot of bargaining power once the player has served for six years. IE you don't want them coming out of contract at the six year mark. You either want them out of contract just before that point - so you have bargaining power when negotiating the next contract (or trade) - or long after that point, so you get as many years of possible of service prior to the player reaching the open market and commanding a higher price.

Toumpas has showed enough in my opinion to keep him on the list. I'd put a two year contract to him so that, if he does become the player we want, we get one more contract out of him before free agency starts to affect the situation. A three year contract puts us in exactly the worst position - it makes him a free agent (assuming the rules change, and they will) at the youngest possible age.

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Works really hard, gets to contests and getting more composure by the week. Will never be the A grader we hoped but should be a really good 10 year servant. Remember, Nathan Jones took time to develop - was a turnover specialist in his first couple of seasons. Great clubman and about time we all gave him a break.

Will never be an A grader!? Do you have a crystal ball? Every chance he will though of course nobody can guarantee that.

Pure speculation one way or the other.

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Outside midfielder’s also generally take longer to adapt to senior AFL footy. There are a lot more physical contents and less time and space. Even more difficult when you are trying to slot into a battling midfield that’s not overly skilled to start with.

Much smoother transition for an inside mid. Usually stronger and used to battling for contested ball. Old mate Wallace (on Future Stars) reckons the success rate for inside mids taken high in the draft is something like 85%.

Can’t remember what the success rate for outside mids was concluded to be, but it was a reasonable drop off for that type of player (and a further drop off for kpp’s).

As I’ve said elsewhere, the encouraging thing as far as Jimmy is concerned, is that the strengths that made him a standout as a junior, have slowly started to translate to his game in senior footy over the last month or so.

Hard running, work ethic and very good disposal by foot. Development for him is continually using those strengths in game and mitigating the weaker areas of his game (disposal under pressure, defensive running, contested footy).

Those weaknesses were there in his game as a junior and clearly targeted areas for development now. The majority of these kids don’t come in as the finished package and by rights should take some time. At the very least I’m seeing some improvement in his contested ball, it’s up to the coaches to help him really improve in the other areas.

There’s a lot of emphasis on Wines (whose output has been fairly freakish) from the 2012 draft, but if you compare how Toumpas is tracking, relative to the other 2012 draftees, I’m comfortable with how Toumpas is going.

Probably because the outside mids have to learn to play on the inside - if they want to make it at the AFL level. The characteristics attributed to being an inside mid, are at a premium in the AFL (work ethic, 1% plays, gut running, repeat efforts, contested ball gets). Outside mids generally come into the AFL and have to learn what it takes to become an inside mid, if they are going to make it in the AFL - they simply cannot just be an outside player. I think that is why they take a bit longer, and why some don't make it at all.

Edited by KingDingAling
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That's a terrible justification for giving him a three year contract, FYI. Assuming free agency does get dropped to six years, then clubs lose an awful lot of bargaining power once the player has served for six years. IE you don't want them coming out of contract at the six year mark. You either want them out of contract just before that point - so you have bargaining power when negotiating the next contract (or trade) - or long after that point, so you get as many years of possible of service prior to the player reaching the open market and commanding a higher price.

Toumpas has showed enough in my opinion to keep him on the list. I'd put a two year contract to him so that, if he does become the player we want, we get one more contract out of him before free agency starts to affect the situation. A three year contract puts us in exactly the worst position - it makes him a free agent (assuming the rules change, and they will) at the youngest possible age.

There are other variables to free agency which also get shifted and modified by the AFL and AFLPA, eg. that a player isn't in the top paid group at the club when they come OOC. Isn't that the ruling that made Chip a UFA rather than just a FA? Correct me if I'm wrong but he signed a 4 yr deal around his AA year, before these FA rules were in place. Should not be retrospective IMO. Having said that, once a player indicates they want to leave, there's not much left but yo get the best deal/compo possible, which happened when we got pick 3.

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That's a terrible justification for giving him a three year contract, FYI. Assuming free agency does get dropped to six years, then clubs lose an awful lot of bargaining power once the player has served for six years. IE you don't want them coming out of contract at the six year mark. You either want them out of contract just before that point - so you have bargaining power when negotiating the next contract (or trade) - or long after that point, so you get as many years of possible of service prior to the player reaching the open market and commanding a higher price.

Toumpas has showed enough in my opinion to keep him on the list. I'd put a two year contract to him so that, if he does become the player we want, we get one more contract out of him before free agency starts to affect the situation. A three year contract puts us in exactly the worst position - it makes him a free agent (assuming the rules change, and they will) at the youngest possible age.

I worded that wrong. I too would aim for a 2 year deal if his current form continues. My thoughts were his management team would push for a 3 year deal and if they demand that and the salary terms are reasonable then I wouldn't necessarily baulk at it. If he starts to cement himself as a regular player we won't have much choice.

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I would be really surprised if he know he exists or gives a stuff about anything we say.

Me too!!

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I disagree big time with the people saying he wont live up to his draft position.

If he played for the Saints on the weekend and had that game against us, half of Demonland would be calling him a future superstar and asking for the MFC to trade for him at years end.

Toump will be a gun.

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Great game by Toumpas loved watching him put his head over it..He had a massive part to play in Jack Vineys goal...

Toumpas was easily in our best ..looked like that number 2 draft pick...finally there is hope!!!!

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Great game by Toumpas loved watching him put his head over it..He had a massive part to play in Jack Vineys goal...

Toumpas was easily in our best ..looked like that number 2 draft pick...finally there is hope!!!!

Except for he was no 4 draft pick......

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Great game by Toumpas loved watching him put his head over it..He had a massive part to play in Jack Vineys goal...

Toumpas was easily in our best ..looked like that number 2 draft pick...finally there is hope!!!!

Except for he was no 4 draft pick......

even better then? :huh:

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If we think we wasted a couple of years under the previous Football Department (or more, if you believe, as I do, that the Bailey era wasn't much chop), then Toumpas has really only had 18 months of proper management (meaning coaching and all the other stuff that makes a football team cohesive). Same with many other players, too.

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If we think we wasted a couple of years under the previous Football Department (or more, if you believe, as I do, that the Bailey era wasn't much chop), then Toumpas has really only had 18 months of proper management (meaning coaching and all the other stuff that makes a football team cohesive). Same with many other players, too.

Very good point LDC

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I wonder what Jimmy thinks of Fence?

I'd say he has blocked his comments like most of us.

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I'd say he has blocked his comments like most of us.

I know you are being light heart ET

Do you think any player with half a brain would go onto a fan website?

After years of dreadful results would any MFC player come on here?

I always find it hard to believe they would.

Just interested in peoples thoughts.

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Probably because the outside mids have to learn to play on the inside - if they want to make it at the AFL level. The characteristics attributed to being an inside mid, are at a premium in the AFL (work ethic, 1% plays, gut running, repeat efforts, contested ball gets). Outside mids generally come into the AFL and have to learn what it takes to become an inside mid, if they are going to make it in the AFL - they simply cannot just be an outside player. I think that is why they take a bit longer, and why some don't make it at all.

Don't agree with this. As an Insider its easy to get to the ball. Essentially watch your immediate matchups and run where the ball is. Outsiders have to learn where to run to. In order to be able to do this they have to learn to read the whole game and their team mates to know where they are going to kick to and to know where to run to so that you become an outside option. It's a much tougher gig. Doubly as hard in a team where they rarely play to a game plan or are slowly learning it so that it's very hard to read the play. I know that several players have complained about how impossible this has been in the past.

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Not just is the Toump coming of age, I think he has arrived.. I am a fan of his style of play

He's good at getting the ball out of congestion to someone in space, and at finding space himself. Exactly where we need to improve as a team.

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