POST MATCH DISCUSSION - ROUND 2, 2015

[jumbo returns 6,484]

The backline is not the problem - they restricted GWS to 2 goals in the first half despite more entries into the forward 50.

Our problem started wen Jamar got torn apart by Mumford and fed their star studded midfield.

Frost is not a second ruckman or a forward - he belongs in the backline.

We still rely on Jones too much in the midfield and if he has a stinker we're gone.

Garletts and Kents inability to convert set shots is also a concern.

Not sure what Dawes brings to the table. He can't mark, can't ruck and doesn't kick many goals. Can't believe what he gets paid for the little he contributes.

Another long season ahead I fear.

Crucial misses, weren't they?

In the context of the game, it would have put us 40+ points up and this could have been defendable...

[Gator 16,888]

If you can't catch them its very hard to tackle them.

Jack Viney has 15, but it has little do with his speed. It's about intent.

Will Minson (12) hardly runs like a gazelle.

[Gator 16,888]

He didn't single out lack of talent, he specifically singled out lack of effort and lack of 4 quarter effort. He made the perfectly valid point that if you aren't Hawthorn, Swans, Freeo, you can't afford to slack off, even for a moment.

Yes he did. He said we "don't have the talent levels" to drop off in effort and he also referred to us as a bottom team.

Look, I love Roos and reckon he's doing a fantastic job in turning around this club, so I have very few criticisms of him, but I do wish he'd get away from highlighting our lack of talent and I see no need for him to call us a "bottom team" after round 2.

Footy is played above the shoulders and him constantly reinforcing where we've been needs to stop.

Edited April 11, 2015 by ProDee

[whatwhat say what 18,743]

there may or there may not be an overreaction to the gws smashing on here itt.

their midfield simply slaughtered ours. our defence was okay, i thought, our forward line had virtually no opportunities to do anything after midway through the second quarter, but our midfield was pantsed.

coniglio, shiel, treloar, ward, griffen, greene, whitfield, kelly, smith, and yes, even he who will not be named, were brilliantly fed by mumford.

comparatively we simply don't have the depth to compete - viney did okay (ostensibly tagging griffen, i actually thought he drew even or was beaten by his man, but that was more sheer weight of numbers than anything else), jones and tyson had barry crocker's, vince looked unready for senior football, cross was down and looked so slow compared to his opposition, newton looked shaky after copping that hit, lumumba is an outside midfielder / sweeping defender who was trying to play an inside role for a while yesterday, while jamar tried hard but was slaughtered by one of the premium ruckmen in the competition.

it wasn't the first and it won't be the last time that the gws' midfield 'clicks' and absolutely destroys an opponent. they looked scary good.

it just firms in my mind that we have to chase super hard this off-season to get one of shiel, treloar, greene, whitfield or kelly to come 'home' to melbourne.

the worse thing is that they'll all command our first round pick - which will probably be in the top handful - and extras, meaning that gws will simply replace top end talent with top end talent.

they're going to be so strong for years to come.

[Lucifers Hero 36,972]

Yes, GWS were faster but they weren't that fast and we weren't that slow. They made us look slower becasue we:

- had poor positions at the stoppages/centre bounces.

- didn't adjust our stoppage play when Jamar lost dominance.

- had too many players trying to get the ball at stoppages and competed with each other

- didn't have players blocking the exits at stoppages (ala poor positions)

- didn't learn to read Mummy.

In a nutshell they got the ball at stoppages/centre bounces and ran and ran. We were in the wrong positions, couldn't catch them and looked slow.

Won't bang on about it but this had as much to do with poor coaching as it did with poor play.

[mo64 5,208]

You are a dead [censored] [censored] wit mate. Look forward to seeing any other decent posts you put up here, if any; none.

Ha, ha, ha. What a joke. You were the bloke that kept prattling on about GWS being scared of Dawes. Then you got even more excited when a track watcher in Canberra made the point that Dawes was jumping out of skin, and took another dig at me.

If you had half a football brain you'd realise that opposition players aren't scared of a player that can't mark and is an average kick. Yeah, Dawes really brutalized them. Your lack of football knowledge is embarassing.

Edited April 11, 2015 by mo64

[John Lord 124]

Just got back from the game. We are not using a second ruckman and are asking players such as Frost to take up the part of a second ruckman.In pre season frost was much more damaging because we did play with a 2nd ruckman. When Jamar tires in a game we do not have a viable rucking option, When Mumford started to take control it was an eay selection to sub out Tomlinson and go quicker and smaller because we had no other rucking options. If we had played a second ruck I very much doubt that tis sub would have happened. GWS controlled throw ins and just punched the ball into space in marking contests allowing their mid field to dominate. Another concern for me is the opposition targetting Cross on kick outs and exploiting his lack of pace. This has happened in both games and in the preseason.

[loges 5,988]

What worries me is the amount of times this side collectively goes into its shell whenever it is challenged. Its the main problem I feel apart from improving the playing list. Its been happening for years now. Where is the leadership?

[JV7 2,339]

Feel flat today... Been a long time since a loss has effected me. Like I said before the game, worst part about having expectations is if we lose your left with this feeling and what makes matters worse there's no realistic chance of a win next week

[rpfc 27,379]

Well, I had the 'extreme advantage' of seeing that up close and very personal...

Just when you think the club couldn't eff with your emotions anymore - in walks the biggest sucker punch I can recall.

The midfield was bulldozed for 45 minutes and that was that.

So humiliating to sit there amongst other Dees and watch it - some turned on Watts, although not as many as I thought there would be, most left their snide remarks for Dawes, and I can see why, but really, and I am sure you noticed this on the TV, the midfield was absolutely annihilated for a quarter and that was the match.

I noticed a couple of things being at the ground; GWS' press was effective but there was no movement from our mids, and our forwards had been instructed to not lead and hold space on the boundary and for the kicks to go there - it worked for a time but then they pushed players over, created contests and beat us.

The rest I think you would have worked out for yourself.

[jackaub 1,402]

It's a team game, BUT, all those who desperately wanted Dawes in this week, hang your head in shame and apologise now. Come on, fess up.

Not me said he should prove himself in VFL Cant take a mark and was horrible defensively

[dee-luded 2,958]

What worries me is the amount of times this side collectively goes into its shell whenever it is challenged. Its the main problem I feel apart from improving the playing list. Its been happening for years now. Where is the leadership?

this are a part of our conservative cultural issues we need more (blue collar, working class attitude in the way we feel about the club, & in the way we play footy) take no prisoners....when the fierce coaches took us over they instilled pride in hard work & toughness & 'footy street smarts'... they had us breathing fire. Checker, Smithy, Barassi after some time of rebuilding, Northey,

but when things get better the off field, the lime light seekers take charge & get rid of said fierce coaches, & the 'soooooft' comes rushing back. this is Our Achilles Heal. this is why we cannot stay tough hard & ruthless.

the hard attitudes keep on getting undermined by the political correctness around the club.

Edited April 12, 2015 by dee-luded

[jackaub 1,402]

I may be going out on limb here but IMO we were out-coached.

If we didn't go in too tall we were certainly too tall when Tomlison went off and Wilson came on in the 2nd qtr.

They then played outside footy while we stuck to inside footy. Momentum swing started here.

But by the end of the 2nd qtr we should've figured out that wasn't working.

3rd qtr we stuck to inisde game. Momentum swing becomes an avalanche.

4th qtr players and coaches looked anaesthetized.

2nd half coaches box options:

- taking off a tall for Brayshaw

- a bit of old fashioned flooding the backline to stop the momentum

- putting speedy player(s) behind the ball. (Watts & Garlett maybe, God knows they were wasted in the fwd line).

- heavily tagging the more damaging GWS players (a bit of a heavy knock to them maybe )

- getting our players to feed off Mummy

- blocking the exits from the stoppages

- etc

These wouldn't have saved the game but would have saved the massive embarrassment, loss of confidence, belief etc. Added to the selection of players underdone/recovering (Howe, Vince, Dawes, Kent - head knock last week) the coaches had a poor round 2.

I hold coaches as responsible as the players.

We were wlways going to be done for speed and the game plan should have reflected that I aggre with all comments above We should have made the game into a slog but we thought we would be able to play like last week and when it didnt happen for us under pressure we folded like a deck. Very dissappointing

[Gator 16,888]

Well, I had the 'extreme advantage' of seeing that up close and very personal...

Just when you think the club couldn't eff with your emotions anymore - in walks the biggest sucker punch I can recall.

The midfield was bulldozed for 45 minutes and that was that.

So humiliating to sit there amongst other Dees and watch it - some turned on Watts, although not as many as I thought there would be, most left their snide remarks for Dawes, and I can see why, but really, and I am sure you noticed this on the TV, the midfield was absolutely annihilated for a quarter and that was the match.

I noticed a couple of things being at the ground; GWS' press was effective but there was no movement from our mids, and our forwards had been instructed to not lead and hold space on the boundary and for the kicks to go there - it worked for a time but then they pushed players over, created contests and beat us.

The rest I think you would have worked out for yourself.

Thanks.

Nothing like an "at ground" perspective.

[rpfc 27,379]

Thanks.

Nothing like an "at ground" perspective.

Depends who you get it from though doesn't it?

[Gator 16,888]

Depends who you get it from though doesn't it?

Thanks again.

[The Song Formerly Known As 6,479]

Ha, ha, ha. What a joke. You were the bloke that kept prattling on about GWS being scared of Dawes. Then you got even more excited when a track watcher in Canberra made the point that Dawes was jumping out of skin, and took another dig at me.

If you had half a football brain you'd realise that opposition players aren't scared of a player that can't mark and is an average kick. Yeah, Dawes really brutalized them. Your lack of football knowledge is embarassing.

You are actually one of the worst posters on here. Please block me and I'll do the same to you.

[mo64 5,208]

You are actually one of the worst posters on here. Please block me and I'll do the same to you.

But your senseless take on football amuses me.

[Fat Tony 4,348]

We lost the game in the midfield and we need to inject some run into the team. We should bring in Matt Jones and JKH for Dawes and Newton.

Dawes is big and slow and those blaming the delivery are mistaken. He gets poor delivery because he is too slow to get separation on his man. He also has terrible hands and is out of the contest on the deck. He is a liability.

Newton would be stiff given he has kicked some good goals in the last two weeks, but he lacks speed for an outside mid and had zero tackles yesterday. I would have Cross ahead of him.

[red and blue forever 768]

Jubilant at half time? really? how could you not see the game shifted in the second qtr?

yes I did... but as with the week before I thought we had held up to a resurgance from them... (we did win the quarter.)

[Biffen 12,298]

We didn't lose due to one extra tall, or otherwise, we lost because the midfield was comprehensively beaten.

And no, the midfield didn't lose to the Suns last week.

Yes they did.

We lost the clearances.

The only stat that matters.

[manny100 998]

To be even competitive we need both Jones and Tyson to play extremely well - did not happen at any stage of the game. There are a number of players with limited AFL games experience - Newton, Vandenberg etc. It is going to be a while before these players become mature enough to deal with an opposition run on like yesterday. So I expect some more up and down inconsistency for a while at least.

I think we have some talent on the list - its just a matter of waiting until that talent is further developed and mature enough to remain calm in a crisis. The Bonti's, Wines and Judd's (as a young kid) are rare and most players take some time.

[Generation dee 1,336]

THAT'S IT!!!

This is a good post, and sorry for cutting out all the rest of it and just quoting this bit, but I wanted to highlight this bit.

When Tomlinson went off, they were forced to play small, and from then on, they killed us. You'd think that losing their main tall forward & second ruck that early in the game would kill them, but it killed us instead. It forced them to play even more small, to run the ball and to kick low into the forward line instead of bombing it.

And it left Dunn, Howe & Garland sharing one sorta-tall (McCarthy) and two smalls.

And the game changed completely.

Doesn't explain why we capitulated in the midfield. The amount of times Jamar taps straight down the throat of an opposition mid is terrible. I rate Jamar highly but Christ he does that often . Tyson, lumumba , Vince and Jones hopefully won't ever all have shockers again on the same day either.

[Generation dee 1,336]

We lost the game in the midfield and we need to inject some run into the team. We should bring in Matt Jones and JKH for Dawes and Newton.

Dawes is big and slow and those blaming the delivery are mistaken. He gets poor delivery because he is too slow to get separation on his man. He also has terrible hands and is out of the contest on the deck. He is a liability.

Newton would be stiff given he has kicked some good goals in the last two weeks, but he lacks speed for an outside mid and had zero tackles yesterday. I would have Cross ahead of him.

Terrible call re newton. Absolutely terrible. In fact, on a thread full of so many horrible calls, that stands out. You're better than that.

[Macca 16,173]

I wasn't one to place scorn on Dawes as many others are even though I wouldn't have necessarily selected him. I'd rather blame the selectors for picking an extra tall forward when we didn't need one.

Our first quarter and a bit when at one one stage we led the clearances 13-4 was terrific so we can at least say we're capable of better ... Jones & Tyson had awful days and if both had played well, the result could have been far different. We're reliant on them to play well and both are normally good enough to deliver - 4 clearances between them when they were in there all day was a telling blow.

They need help though so we need Vince, Cross, Viney, Brayshaw, Lumumba, Toumpas, Salem, Newton & vandenBerg (4 x Clr yesterday) to play their part. It's a trial and error thing with those that I've mentioned. We can't just give up on them - give them an opportunity I say.

Our clearance work and midfield remains our greatest concern all the same - adding 2 classy inside/outside midfielders would change things dramatically ... easier said than done of course.

It's a concern that it's Adelaide in Adelaide next week but maybe we need a really stern test straight away to sort out the men from the boys. Let's see how we bounce back against a very good team away from home.