No "elite" players at Melbourne

[Whispering_Jack 27,959]

According to the 2014 AFL Prospectus issued by Champion Data, we have no "elite" players at the club. "Elite" is defined as being in the top 10% in the AFL for their position - Travis Cloke not considered elite by Champion Data

Those in the top 10% for their position

Adelaide

Patrick Dangerfield (midfielder/forward)

Rory Sloane (mid)

Brisbane

Tom Rockliff (mid)

Pearce Hanley (defender)

Carlton

Andrew Walker (def)

Kade Simpson (def)

Collingwood

Scott Pendlebury (mid)

Dane Swan (mid)

Dayne Beams (mid)

Ben Reid (def)

Essendon

Jobe Watson (mid)

Michael Hibberd (def)

Fremantle

Michael Barlow (mid)

Matthew Pavlich (for)

Michael Johnson (def)

Chris Mayne (for)

Michael Walters (for)

Geelong

Joel Selwood (mid)

Steve Johnson (mid)

Jimmy Bartel (def)

Corey Enright (def)

Harry Taylor (def)

Gold Coast

Gary Ablett (mid)

GWS

Heath Shaw (def)

Hawthorn

Sam Mitchell (mid)

Jarryd Roughead (for)

Luke Hodge (def)

Grant Birchall (def)

Cyril Rioli (for)

Jack Gunston (for)

Melbourne

No elite

North Melbourne

Todd Goldstein (ruck)

Drew Petrie (for)

Scott Thompson (def)

Port Adelaide

Angus Monfries (for)

Richmond

Trent Cotchin (mid)

Brett Deledio (mid)

Alex Rance (def)

St Kilda

Leigh Montagna (mid)

Nick Riewoldt (for)

Sydney

Josh Kennedy (mid)

Kieren Jack (mid)

Jarrad McVeigh (def)

Lance Franklin (for)

Adam Goodes (for)

West Coast

Dean Cox (ruck)

Western Bulldogs

Ryan Griffen (mid)

Will Minson (ruck)

Matthew Boyd (mid)

Robert Murphy (def)

The rankings are based on 2013 performances alone so they are unlikely to be replicated this year which is just as well for us. They also suggest that in order to finish top four you need at least five players in the elite category.

[The Song Formerly Known As 6,479]

Pretty much right.
Nathan Jones may be one of our closest but he has some stiff compeition.
A fit Mitch Clark?

Perhaps.
A James Frawley in a team where the midfield actually put in and helped stop the ball from coming in 1,0000000000 times a game?

Perhaps.

But at the moment, dead on the money i say.

[What 18,810]

Champion Data is a joke

James Frawley is an elite full back no matter how you slice it

[monoccular 16,042]

Pretty much right.

Nathan Jones may be one of our closest but he has some stiff compeition.

A fit Mitch Clark?

Perhaps.

A James Frawley in a team where the midfield actually put in and helped stop the ball from coming in 1,0000000000 times a game?

Perhaps.

But at the moment, dead on the money i say.

I would have to agree

All very well to mention Clark but he can only be assessed if he plays :-(((

Jones as you say is close - would be better ranked, IMVHO, if he had / will be when he has more support.

[T-34 409]

This is based purely on Champion Data's point system so is hamstrung by statistics.

Several players mentioned rarely play in the positions stated.(eg. Bartel-Defender)

We will all see where someone like Frawley is rated when clubs are lining up to lure him away at seasons end.

Players who rack up cheap possessions across half back can score heavily but are hardly elite, however in this case Melbourne 2013 struggled to have players ranked anywhere above pure crap.

Hoping 2014 is a marked step up.

[The Song Formerly Known As 6,479]

I would have to agree

All very well to mention Clark but he can only be assessed if he plays :-(((

Jones as you say is close - would be better ranked, IMVHO, if he had / will be when he has more support.

thats what i mean, a "fit" Mitch Clark

[The Song Formerly Known As 6,479]

This is based purely on Champion Data's point system so is hamstrung by statistics.

Several players mentioned rarely play in the positions stated.(eg. Bartel-Defender)

We will all see where someone like Frawley is rated when clubs are lining up to lure him away at seasons end.

Players who rack up cheap possessions across half back can score heavily but are hardly elite, however in this case Melbourne 2013 struggled to have players ranked anywhere above pure crap.

Hoping 2014 is a marked step up.

ahahahahah it's funny because it's true.

It's also very sad.

[Bring-Back-Powell 13,125]

Surprised Nicholson didn't make that list

[Earl Hood 5,788]

Hasn't this been much of our problems over the last decade or two, our inability to recruit elite talent. When we talk elite I don't include the development variable, I believe largely that real elite talents will develop themselves no matter where they are, MFC or GFC. And to a large degree it is still a lottery to pick the one or two elites who may be sitting in each draft in or around say the top 20. We have been awful at it and Hawthorn have been exceptional and hit the jackpot every 4 or 5 years that has set them up for success. Starting with Hodge and Mitchell then Buddy, Roughead and Lewis then top up with Cyril and they all stay fit and playing. That is the recipe for sustained success.

The definition used by Champion data is a bit loose I think; I don't regard Gunston as elite, he is good but you have to take into account the team around him that makes him look very good indeed. Put him our forward line and how does he fare? Put Wayne Carey there and he stars, no matter who he plays with.

[Ron Burgundy 8,584]

Tom Rockliff and Rory Sloane. The irony.

[Yeats8 21]

Plus Dangerfield and Beams....irony x 2

[Deestar3 167]

Alex rance .....please!!!!! How he can be ranked above frawley is an absolute joke

[CBDees 3,162]

I would not fuss about these rankings as it merely will assist us to 'fly under the radar'. We are not on our Pat Malone in the alleged dearth of elite talent and GWS's only player is Heath Shaw recruited in the Trade Period. I suspect that they have a few more players on their list who are potentially elite in 2014 (as will we).

[Forest Demon 4,681]

Stopped reading at Michael Hibberd. This isn't a list of elite footballers, it is a list of elite super coach options.

[rjay 23,887]

As usual this is a load of rubbish from champion data. Cloke is the best CHF in the biz and any club would have him. Would you have Chris Mayne or Cloke? Rance a serviceable player but you just shudder when he has the ball. Heath Shaw had a very average year for him, he is a good player but. Beams missed a lot of the year, Rioli was average and also missed a lot of it. Where was Wingard for Port?

As for us, well I think Jones is close but not yet elite. Some assistance this year will help him. Frawley is one of the best in the game and I would expect to see him in this list at the end of the season (hope his is still listed under Melbourne) if we have a functioning midfield which I think we will. We an also look forward to Tyson and Hogan joining that list with a few others in the next few years.

[Chelly 740]

According to the 2014 AFL Prospectus issued by Champion Data, we have no "elite" players at the club. "Elite" is defined as being in the top 10% in the AFL for their position - Travis Cloke not considered elite by Champion Data

Those in the top 10% for their position

Essendon

Jobe Watson (mid)

Michael Hibberd (def)

AOD9604

TB4

[John Crow Batty 8,248]

If Roos can get the team together and focused I am sure we way may end up with at least a few "elite" players on the hit parade by the end of the season. Its all about winning.

[Whispering_Jack 27,959]

My definition of "elite" differs greatly from the one that Champion Data uses. As mentioned previously, theirs is a statistical one based on a year's performances.

In my book you don't get to be elite unless you've got the score on the board over a number of seasons and that's just the start of it.

[Dr. Gonzo 22,412]

It's hilarious how people get so offended by lists like these. Yes it is a list based purely on CD's own statistics and metrics which they clearly spell out and don't pretend to be anything else. Their definition of elite is the top players for those stats and metrics in their positions. I should add that these rankings are made based off around 130-150 different stats most of which the lay person has no access to.

Jones was great in 2012 but really didn't meet the same level in 2013. Frawley has the potential to be a top defender but again hasn't really shown it for a couple of years. These are based purely on 2013 stats and anyone who disagrees with guys like Hibberd or Gunston didn't watch much footy last year. I'll take CD's objective analysis over subjective whims from supporters. It should be take as a guide it is not definitive.

[Lil_red_fire_engine 10,156]

Things to consider when reading this. It is elite based on what champion data define worth measuring. Based on the players in here it seems to heavily skew to possession rather than impact or defensive skill set. Also it is based on the statistics from the previous year. How surprising then that the better performed teams are better represented because guess what? They get more ball. They're more effective when they get it. They kick bigger scores.Thats why they finished where they did. Its a bit chicken and egg to say to be a top 4 team you need 5 elite players. More so top 4 teams get more effective ball therefore 25% of their starting side usually float to the top.

In saying this the only player we have who would be close to elite based on their position would be Frawley. I would not be surprised to see Grimes and a fit Clark pop up on this list next year.

[rjay 23,887]

It's hilarious how people get so offended by lists like these. Yes it is a list based purely on CD's own statistics and metrics which they clearly spell out and don't pretend to be anything else. Their definition of elite is the top players for those stats and metrics in their positions. I should add that these rankings are made based off around 130-150 different stats most of which the lay person has no access to.

Jones was great in 2012 but really didn't meet the same level in 2013. Frawley has the potential to be a top defender but again hasn't really shown it for a couple of years. These are based purely on 2013 stats and anyone who disagrees with guys like Hibberd or Gunston didn't watch much footy last year. I'll take CD's objective analysis over subjective whims from supporters. It should be take as a guide it is not definitive.

It just shows that they are flawed 'Gonzo' and it's not objective analysis at all when the foundation of the stats is very subjective from the start.

The only type of objective analysis you could have is who had the most kicks for 2013, things like that but when you try to extrapolate that out to identifying the elite players in the comp then it carries as much weight as the subjective whims of supporters.

[All the Jacks 99]

Bit sad that no one has come up through the earlier drafting.

Over the next 3 years I can see Jack Viney, Christian Salem and Jimmy Toumpas pushing into the top 10%, hopefully a couple more of the Jacks as well, if Mitch Clark is clear of injuries and becomes a regular a good chance.

[Dr. Gonzo 22,412]

It just shows that they are flawed 'Gonzo' and it's not objective analysis at all when the foundation of the stats is very subjective from the start.

The only type of objective analysis you could have is who had the most kicks for 2013, things like that but when you try to extrapolate that out to identifying the elite players in the comp then it carries as much weight as the subjective whims of supporters.

How is it flawed? They use more than 100 different stats, not just cumulative kicks, marks, handballs but also efficiency stats. Look at the list in the OP and tell me how many you could truly say are "wrong"? It is an indicator as I said but it's a pretty true indicator and the best indicator we have so far to measure players. If you can come up with some better analysis be my guest but at this stage forgive me if I prefer the informed analysis of CD over the "yeah, but nah" speculation of the supporters in the outer.

Again I reiterate, they are not saying these players are "elite" in the manner the every day supporter thinks of it (Ablett, Carey, Voss etc) - they are merely saying based on their measurements and analysis of the 2013 season these players are in the top 10 for their position which they refer to as "elite". They're not saying Andrew Walker and Kade Simpson are amongst the top 10 players of all time.

[rjay 23,887]

How is it flawed? They use more than 100 different stats, not just cumulative kicks, marks, handballs but also efficiency stats. Look at the list in the OP and tell me how many you could truly say are "wrong"? It is an indicator as I said but it's a pretty true indicator and the best indicator we have so far to measure players. If you can come up with some better analysis be my guest but at this stage forgive me if I prefer the informed analysis of CD over the "yeah, but nah" speculation of the supporters in the outer.

Again I reiterate, they are not saying these players are "elite" in the manner the every day supporter thinks of it (Ablett, Carey, Voss etc) - they are merely saying based on their measurements and analysis of the 2013 season these players are in the top 10 for their position which they refer to as "elite". They're not saying Andrew Walker and Kade Simpson are amongst the top 10 players of all time.

It is still subjective 'Gonzo' and therefor flawed. Believe what you want as you will.

[Elusive Tunbridge 795]

This is a terrible blow to the prospects of our club. Can I get my membership money back?