NAB CUP 3: ST. KILDA

[Hannibal 5,814]

I thought Davey actually went in a lot harder than I have seen for a couple of years. There was no shirking confrontation with opposition players or going in for the ball. His kicking skills are still sublime - kick to hogan on interchange wing.

Tappy - loved him encouraging (whilst walking around interchange)his team mate to "get him" as he chased down the opposition.

Loved Rhodans encouraging words to the younger boys as they walked around the interchange. Great team man.

I thought it was Nicholson. I also thought someone should have come in to help and I think Garland did at the end but a bit late. I could be wrong because by this stage I was in a state of confusion caused by the suffocating heat. Don't know how the players did it. Toumpas looked absolutely out of it.

I like what Tapscott brings to the table, but he just doesn't get enough of the footy. It's a real concern. I reckon he's fighting Kent for a spot in the team and I know who I'd prefer.

[Axis of Bob 10,168]

Watts did some good things yesterday. He is calm and composed and generally wins more 50/50s than he loses. He's been very good in that role and I can certainly see him continue to play well as a rebounding defender this year. We don't have many players in our defence with his sort of composure and distribution under pressure, so it makes him avery important player for us.

I though Terlich was good, although I think he's a better attacker than defender at the moment. He's good with the footy and calm, but he needs to find the balance between his offence and defence.

Jamar was good, as he should have been.

I think, despite Sellar's excellent form, that Pederson is the better player for us in his role. He's a better runner and that's required pushing up the ground in the role they'll play. Pederson did some very good things that created opportunities for us, even if they didn't get on the stats sheet. He's a big, mobile body. Hopefully he is good enough in the ruck to play the role, although he broke even with the other back up rucks in Kosi and Blake. Sellar is a taller, stronger option, but I don't think that this is the role we need with Dawes and Clark to return.

Our defensive system is much better this year. You can tell that they are better drilled now and fitter, but we it isn't yet natural enough for us to do it without thought. In the second quarter we let them get the ball over the back and they go some very easy goals. Other than that we were probably the better side.

We do need, however, just that extra bit of class in teh midfield to be able to turn our half chances into easy chances, and our good play into goals. Just lacked that hint of crispness when it counted. St Kilda had some very classy midfielders that consistently took the chances to create that came to them.

[Lil_red_fire_engine 10,132]

I assume you are referring to me TimD. My anti Neeld views are well known - hardly a surprise.

What you have missed is that I am pro the Geelong brand of football - a number of clubs have picked up on this style with varying levels of success largely due to their list make-up. I believe this brand of football is most effective, honest to the traditions of the game and very attractive to watch - yesterday's Geelong v NM game was an example.

MFC should be aiming to use this brand of football, but like everyone else will probably need to vary it slightly - Geelong does still have the luxury of a very good (and young) list.

I believe a lot of MFC supporters would like to see us playing this style of football!

I believe most MFC supporters want us to play a brand of football that gives us the best chance to succeed. Can you advise whether Sydney or Hawthorn played the Geelong brand last year? Who aside from Geelong is playing the Geelong brand? Aside from some of our poor skills at times yesterday I saw nothing wrong with our style from a viewing perspective.

[timD 994]

I assume you are referring to me TimD. My anti Neeld views are well known - hardly a surprise.

What you have missed is that I am pro the Geelong brand of football - a number of clubs have picked up on this style with varying levels of success largely due to their list make-up. I believe this brand of football is most effective, honest to the traditions of the game and very attractive to watch - yesterday's Geelong v NM game was an example.

MFC should be aiming to use this brand of football, but like everyone else will probably need to vary it slightly - Geelong does still have the luxury of a very good (and young) list.

I believe a lot of MFC supporters would like to see us playing this style of football!

good get.

Neeld is a beginning coach with one of the worst teams in AFL history (relative to its competition). no real leaders, poor onfield and off-field culture, limited talent, limited experience...and you reckon you know how he is going to get us to play?

Let's all be terribly clear about this: none of us know if Neeld can coach. None of us know how it will look if and when he gets it together and none of us know what style will win a grand final with the one exception: that competitiveness around the ground and a team built on defensive principles has always stood the best chance of winning a premiership once its talent has got up and going. And that is where Neeld has started.

Neeld has been clear about who he wants and who he doesn't. He has been clear on trying to build a forward structure. He has been clear about the character of people he wants to recruit. Thompson got years to shape a list: he almost lost his job before it all clicked. Let's give Neeld some time: he clearly has direction.

[DemonWorshipper 296]

It's been 24 hours since the game, why no video? Even the Power last week sent a camera and a commentator to Renmark, the club wonders why the Membership numbers are down, well it's little things like looking after the members you have so they resign next year and the year after. Damn poor show I reckon. For those who couldn't get to the game we could also have commented on whether Watts is spud or not!

The game is up. http://www.melbournefc.com.au/video/2013-03-10/deetv-demons-v-saints-q1

[mauriesy 6,783]

Some pics from today:

It's interesting in this photo that every Melbourne player is behind their Saints' opponent.

[Hardnut 327]

I believe most MFC supporters want us to play a brand of football that gives us the best chance to succeed. Can you advise whether Sydney or Hawthorn played the Geelong brand last year? Who aside from Geelong is playing the Geelong brand? Aside from some of our poor skills at times yesterday I saw nothing wrong with our style from a viewing perspective.

I believe neither Sydney nor Hawthorn play the Geelong style. Last year's finals were unusual - IMO neither team deserved to win. Both Geelong and Adelaide dropped out somewhat unexpectedly - an analysis of the season and the finals is needed to understand this comment. Teams now trying to play the Geelong brand would include Kangas, Crows, Port Adelaide, Essendon to some extent, and Bulldogs but without the cattle. All these teams have former connections to Geelong, so no great surprise. Teams definitely not playing the Geelong style would include Collingwood, Carlton and MFC. Of course, there are degrees in how one assesses this, but I offer my thoughts as a response to your question - there are other clubs which could perhaps be classified differently. I am certainly open to discussion on this topic.

[mjt 640]

On what I've seen of him this year, Watts would be my outsider for B&F this year. I'm quietly confident on top 5.

Couldnt agree more, the guys worth 3 Sylvias.

[Hardnut 327]

good get.

Neeld is a beginning coach with one of the worst teams in AFL history (relative to its competition). no real leaders, poor onfield and off-field culture, limited talent, limited experience...and you reckon you know how he is going to get us to play?

Let's all be terribly clear about this: none of us know if Neeld can coach. None of us know how it will look if and when he gets it together and none of us know what style will win a grand final with the one exception: that competitiveness around the ground and a team built on defensive principles has always stood the best chance of winning a premiership once its talent has got up and going. And that is where Neeld has started.

Neeld has been clear about who he wants and who he doesn't. He has been clear on trying to build a forward structure. He has been clear about the character of people he wants to recruit. Thompson got years to shape a list: he almost lost his job before it all clicked. Let's give Neeld some time: he clearly has direction.

I cannot agree with your unbelievably exaggerated assessment of MFC when Neeld took over and I know I am not alone in this view.

Your second paragraph is all over the place - it looks like a cover-all bases approach.

On a player swap for swap basis, I don't believe Neeld has got value - it's that simple.

[Young Dee 1,302]

Don't know if anyone has posted this already but... the match recordings are up on the MFC website: http://www.melbournefc.com.au/dee-tv

Q1: http://www.melbournefc.com.au/video/2013-03-10/deetv-demons-v-saints-q1

Q2: http://www.melbournefc.com.au/video/2013-03-10/deetv-demons-v-saints-q2

Q3: http://www.melbournefc.com.au/video/2013-03-10/deetv-demons-v-saints-q3

Q4: http://www.melbournefc.com.au/video/2013-03-10/deetv-demons-v-saints-q4

[P-man 13,154]

I cannot agree with your unbelievably exaggerated assessment of MFC when Neeld took over and I know I am not alone in this view.

I hate to be one of those types that harps on about 186, but an extraordinary result like that points heavily towards what tim mentioned: no real leaders, poor culture, limited talent and limited experience. Even if you buy into the "protest performance" theory, that is till an indication of shocking culture and disunity.

The major problems began with recruitment. Far, far too many duds.Time will tell how much of an improvement Neeld and staff will be in that regard but the early signs are that Toumpas, Hogan, Kent, Terlich and M Jones should all be wins. I was against the selection of Rodan but it could turn out to be an inspired selection. If Dawes fails that will reflect poorly, but the move certainly showed balls.

Whether Neeld can coach at AFL level is still to be determined, but he was definitely coming from a very low base.

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

OK late summary here, hope somebody sees some value in it

(Is there anything worse than the poster who couldn't be F'd going down there, but they look at a stats sheet and pontificate on it as if they were there?)

-Anyway, Frawley played well, I saw ONE instance where Riewoldt (who is clearly one of the best in the game) beat him, and even that incident occured because NR had a nice little runup to be able to come over the top of a flat footed JF to mark it. That incident aside he guarded the goals as the all australian we know,. Same goes for Watts, he was clinical as usual, exc the full back kickout he did in the last few minutes that hit dal santo on the chest. Apart from that he delivered his usual game of precise, clever football. We were the better team for about 85 of the 100 minutes. Jones and Jamar are the real deal, as we all know.. couple more A graders in there and we have a midfield, cue viney blease trengove toumpas. Lyden dunn had a couple of moments that would be regarded as franklin-like.. i've never been a big fan but some of the things he has pulled out in the last few have been A grade. What I couldn't believe was the amount of handballs that missed the target, as others have touched on, we had just too many hacks playing, i'm thinking Gillies and Nicholson first and foremost. Others inc Matt Jones and Terlich were guilty of similar but these are guys who have just started their journey We need to be fielding a 22 that doesnt make thse basic mistakes... call me captain obvious..We could not connect 3 or 4 possession changes without some hack fluffing it up, for the season proper we will have trengove and mckenzie in there, kicking to clark and dawes instead of nobody, as was the case yesterday. Obviously, we lost a game because of a 15 minute period domination, this has been the pattern for the last few years, and is clearly our biggest challenge. Despite my general distrust of stats, we beat them for I50s and we didnt have our best 2 monster forwards down there. Davey played a disgusting game. Almost as bad as having 21 in the squad.. I have been a huge fan over his career but at this point i view him as a cancer that must be removed. You didnt see any of the power sides over the last few carrying a prissy, selfish, primadonna in the forward pocket. Apart from a 15 minute period we were quite good despite the fact our opponent was clearly at higher strength than us. Clark Dawes Blease Viney Trengove McDonald we are so much better than that, these guys take the place of the hacks we saw out there yesterday

I am well known as a doom-and-gloomer but i left cranbourne yesterday with a slight spring in my step. Everbody was expecting the 5 goal lead at 3QT to become a 10 goal win, but they had more mettle than that.For this preseason in general I am very confident we will move from 4 wins to 8-9, possibly more if a certain view like sylvia and grimes can up the ante

BTW I saw some knocks on Toumpas and I wonder if some people have the slightest idea about football. He spent a lot of time on the bench, but when involved he showed why (similar to Trengove) he was the captain of SA. He went back and nailed that goal from about 50 in high winds and it confrimed his class for mine.

Bottom line: If we can address our propensity to get owned for 15 minutes a game, we will approach 8-10 wins this year

[Young Dee 1,302]

OK late summary here, hope somebody sees some value in it

(Is there anything worse than the poster who couldn't be F'd going down there, but they look at a stats sheet and pontificate on it as if they were there?)

-Anyway, Frawley played well, I saw ONE instance where Riewoldt (who is clearly one of the best in the game) beat him, and even that incident occured because NR had a nice little runup to be able to come over the top of a flat footed JF to mark it. That incident aside he guarded the goals as the all australian we know,. Same goes for Watts, he was clinical as usual, exc the full back kickout he did in the last few minutes that hit dal santo on the chest. Apart from that he delivered his usual game of precise, clever football. We were the better team for about 85 of the 100 minutes. Jones and Jamar are the real deal, as we all know.. couple more A graders in there and we have a midfield, cue viney blease trengove toumpas. Lyden dunn had a couple of moments that would be regarded as franklin-like.. i've never been a big fan but some of the things he has pulled out in the last few have been A grade. What I couldn't believe was the amount of handballs that missed the target, as others have touched on, we had just too many hacks playing, i'm thinking Gillies and Nicholson first and foremost. Others inc Matt Jones and Terlich were guilty of similar but these are guys who have just started their journey We need to be fielding a 22 that doesnt make thse basic mistakes... call me captain obvious..We could not connect 3 or 4 possession changes without some hack fluffing it up, for the season proper we will have trengove and mckenzie in there, kicking to clark and dawes instead of nobody, as was the case yesterday. Obviously, we lost a game because of a 15 minute period domination, this has been the pattern for the last few years, and is clearly our biggest challenge. Despite my general distrust of stats, we beat them for I50s and we didnt have our best 2 monster forwards down there. Davey played a disgusting game. Almost as bad as having 21 in the squad.. I have been a huge fan over his career but at this point i view him as a cancer that must be removed. You didnt see any of the power sides over the last few carrying a prissy, selfish, primadonna in the forward pocket. Apart from a 15 minute period we were quite good despite the fact our opponent was clearly at higher strength than us. Clark Dawes Blease Viney Trengove McDonald we are so much better than that, these guys take the place of the hacks we saw out there yesterday

I am well known as a doom-and-gloomer but i left cranbourne yesterday with a slight spring in my step. Everbody was expecting the 5 goal lead at 3QT to become a 10 goal win, but they had more mettle than that.For this preseason in general I am very confident we will move from 4 wins to 8-9, possibly more if a certain view like sylvia and grimes can up the ante

BTW I saw some knocks on Toumpas and I wonder if some people have the slightest idea about football. He spent a lot of time on the bench, but when involved he showed why (similar to Trengove) he was the captain of SA. Her went back and nailed that goal from about 50 in high winds and it confrimed his class for mine.

Bottom line: If we can address our propensity to get owned for 15 minutes a game, we will approach 8-10 wins this year

Thanks for the report C and B

[Hardnut 327]

I hate to be one of those types that harps on about 186, but an extraordinary result like that points heavily towards what tim mentioned: no real leaders, poor culture, limited talent and limited experience. Even if you buy into the "protest performance" theory, that is till an indication of shocking culture and disunity.

The major problems began with recruitment. Far, far too many duds.Time will tell how much of an improvement Neeld and staff will be in that regard but the early signs are that Toumpas, Hogan, Kent, Terlich and M Jones should all be wins. I was against the selection of Rodan but it could turn out to be an inspired selection. If Dawes fails that will reflect poorly, but the move certainly showed balls.

Whether Neeld can coach at AFL level is still to be determined, but he was definitely coming from a very low base.

I was at the 186 game - I believe the answer was simply that Geelong was so good! (It has happened before in football history!)

I agree that some of our draft picks look very good, but that is probably true of draft picks at every club - only time will tell.

I cannot agree that Neeld was coming from a low base - maybe we just have to agree to disagree on this one.

[bing181 8,149]

It's been 24 hours since the game, why no video? Even the Power last week sent a camera and a commentator to Renmark, the club wonders why the Membership numbers are down, well it's little things like looking after the members you have so they resign next year and the year after. Damn poor show I reckon.

St Kilda didn't even bother to film it for their fans, and the Port/Melb match wasn't on their site till the following day either.

FFS.

[P-man 13,154]

Absolute domination in that first quarter. The only time the Saints got any momentum was from a cheap or dodgy free, and their only goal came from a simple turnover from Jones' boot, of all people. A couple of Hogan marks not paid too. You add a couple more goals and the deficit created in the second quarter would've been alot more manageable. If we can play like that for four quarters we'll compete with most teams.

Also, Rodan, wow. More of that this season thanks.

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

St Kilda didn't even bother to film it for their fans, and the Port/Melb match wasn't on their site to the following day either.

FFS.

if you ask me, if you live in the city of melbourne, anywhere near cranbourne you should get your arse down there. I had a huge night friday night and i really wasnt feeling enthusiastic but i effing did because i love and support this club. Last week renmark, next week southport, there is nothing you can do about that, but casey you have the opportunity to get down there. It's our lot in life to be the AFLs whipping boy, but you have no excuse not to get on the freeway like 5000 of us did yesterday in the searing heat

Edited March 10, 2013 by Curry & Beer

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

Absolute domination in that first quarter. The only time the Saints got any momentum was from a cheap or dodgy free, and their only goal came from a simple turnover from Jones' boot, of all people. A couple of Hogan marks not paid too. You add a couple more goals and the deficit created in the second quarter would've been alot more manageable. If we can play like that for four quarters we'll compete with most teams.

Also, Rodan, wow. More of that this season thanks.

exactly right, i think we were 10 points or so up at qtr time, should have been more like 20. Upmires blah blah blah but its a simple fact frees were 15-5 at half time, it had nothing to do with the way were playing they just got the advantage of every contentious one. That was one factor, the other massive one was that we were missing clark and dawes, we had more i50s surprise suprise we couldn't kick as many. The other factor is that our infantile side let their gaurd down for 12 minutes against the wind, ultimately costing us the game. We were the better side everall despite missing about 7 of our best 22

[ickey_11 145]

It's interesting in this photo that every Melbourne player is behind their Saints' opponent.

except Jones

[Finks 19]

Watts did some good things yesterday. He is calm and composed and generally wins more 50/50s than he loses. He's been very good in that role and I can certainly see him continue to play well as a rebounding defender this year. We don't have many players in our defence with his sort of composure and distribution under pressure, so it makes him avery important player for us.

I though Terlich was good, although I think he's a better attacker than defender at the moment. He's good with the footy and calm, but he needs to find the balance between his offence and defence.

Jamar was good, as he should have been.

I think, despite Sellar's excellent form, that Pederson is the better player for us in his role. He's a better runner and that's required pushing up the ground in the role they'll play. Pederson did some very good things that created opportunities for us, even if they didn't get on the stats sheet. He's a big, mobile body. Hopefully he is good enough in the ruck to play the role, although he broke even with the other back up rucks in Kosi and Blake. Sellar is a taller, stronger option, but I don't think that this is the role we need with Dawes and Clark to return.

Our defensive system is much better this year. You can tell that they are better drilled now and fitter, but we it isn't yet natural enough for us to do it without thought. In the second quarter we let them get the ball over the back and they go some very easy goals. Other than that we were probably the better side.

We do need, however, just that extra bit of class in teh midfield to be able to turn our half chances into easy chances, and our good play into goals. Just lacked that hint of crispness when it counted. St Kilda had some very classy midfielders that consistently took the chances to create that came to them.

I have a lot of love for you Bob.

Your posts and the occasional text from Jack on game day, are the only voices I listen to.

Thanks.

[Hannibal 5,814]

Watts did some good things yesterday. He is calm and composed and generally wins more 50/50s than he loses. He's been very good in that role and I can certainly see him continue to play well as a rebounding defender this year.

Watts had 11 possessions and one tackle.

I think what you say is right in theory, but wrong in practical terms. And I disagree about the 50/50's. He loses more than he wins. Watts is best when he's free and has time to deliver. One-on-one he's poor and even yesterday he was poor when rushed. He tackles like a girl. Not good in a football sense.

I know that supporters want him to be good and that they love the ball in his hands, but I'm not sure if you're seeing what's going on when he doesn't have it. Jack isn't good in a high pressure repeat effort equation. He makes virtually no body contact when he spoils. Put simply, he's very poor defensively. I'm surprised by your critique to put it mildly.

[Axis of Bob 10,168]

I have a lot of love for you Bob.

Your posts and the occasional text from Jack on game day, are the only voices I listen to.

Thanks.

Awwwww .... Shucks. Thanks Finks.

[Bring-Back-Powell 13,106]

Watts had 11 possessions and one tackle.

I think what you say is right in theory, but wrong in practical terms. And I disagree about the 50/50's. He loses more than he wins. Watts is best when he's free and has time to deliver. One-on-one he's poor and even yesterday he was poor when rushed. He tackles like a girl. Not good in a football sense.

I know that supporters want him to be good and that they love the ball in his hands, but I'm not sure if you're seeing what's going on when he doesn't have it. Jack isn't good in a high pressure repeat effort equation. He makes virtually no body contact when he spoils. Put simply, he's very poor defensively. I'm surprised by your critique to put it mildly.

Put him on the wing.

Our disposal into inside 50 is vfl 2's standard.

The bloke has a beautiful shoe, and his defensive weaknesses won't be as exposed on the wing.

[RalphiusMaximus 5,993]

As C&B noted above, we won the i50s. We also broke even on possessions. What this says to me is that we were either not hitting our forwards or the forwards were not able to capitalise on the ball they were getting. I suspect that with the first choice forward line in place we would have seen a better telly from the entries we had.

[angrydee 842]

Watts had 11 possessions and one tackle.

I think what you say is right in theory, but wrong in practical terms. And I disagree about the 50/50's. He loses more than he wins. Watts is best when he's free and has time to deliver. One-on-one he's poor and even yesterday he was poor when rushed. He tackles like a girl. Not good in a football sense.

I know that supporters want him to be good and that they love the ball in his hands, but I'm not sure if you're seeing what's going on when he doesn't have it. Jack isn't good in a high pressure repeat effort equation. He makes virtually no body contact when he spoils. Put simply, he's very poor defensively. I'm surprised by your critique to put it mildly.

Ben- you have become painfully repetitive. We know you don't rate Watts. Enough already.