The Waylen (aka Zyrus) Manson Thread

[... 11]

Indeed.

By singling out four individual players at the club, pinpointing perceived deficiencies in the way they play and linking them by their race, Barry Dawson is guilty of racial sterotyping of the worst order. It's offensive and unacceptable anywhere.

In the normal course, I would discuss a sanction against Barry Dawson with the other mods which would involve at the very least, the removal of his posts (which are an embarrassment to me and to the site), but I thought it might be better to retain them as an example of the sheer ignorance that racist talk entails.

In the last century, we saw several instances of what happens when racist stereotyping is accepted and becomes rife within society.

In the extreme cases, it led to the deaths of millions of Jews, Gypsies and others who were not to the liking of a pathological murderer in Europe, a million and a half in Cambodia in the 70s, a similar number of Armenians at the hands of the Turks almost 100 years ago and close to a million in Rwanda in the 90s.

And we never seem to learn because fifty years after Hitler, the massacre took place on European soil of more than 8,000 Bosnian Muslims in and around the town of Srebrenica in Bosnia and Herzegovina. Today, there are parts of modern, liberal Europe where the old hatred of Jews thrives and there are countless parts of the globe where the killing and rape of innocents on the basis of racial and/or religious differences go on unabated.

Our own Indigenous people suffered similarly when the white man turned up here and the killing began and went on until they were utterly decimated. Our former prime minister issued an apology for what our forebears did but it seems that it passed over some people's heads and that bigotry is still alive and healthy even here.

But racism at the Barry Dawson level, whilst it might not kill or injure physically, is often deeply hurtful to individuals in a society - it's a cowardly form of bullying that we don't have to accept from anyone these days - certainly not here.

You can criticise any individual player as much as you like on this site as long as you do so constructively but if you associate that criticism with the person's race or religion, you cross the line into an area that is grossly offensive and unacceptable and won't be tolerated.

A ridiculous over-reaction with the aim of grandstanding yourself as politically correct. Bringing Hitler into the thread to incite your Jewish mates is pathetic. My comments were entirely about the style of football played by our indigenous contingent, and nothing more. You and several others here have decided that's racist. Well good on you. As previously stated, I think Aaron Davey is fantastic, and I hope he has a better year with a real role and a game plan. I hope Jurrah does the same. I also got stuck into Sylvia's behaviour, but he obviously doesn't fit the indigenous group, which doesn't fit your racist argument, so that hasn't been mentioned. Convenient for you.

Edit: By the way... Trying to tie my comments to the mistreatment of aborigines by the 'white man' (of whom I'll guess you're a part) is also a disgraceful twisting of my comments. Who do you think you are? You've made so much more out of my original post than I ever intended, and you've done so to make yourself look good.

Edited December 7, 2011 by ...

[Whispering_Jack 27,929]

My comments were entirely about the style of football played by our indigenous contingent, and nothing more.

Rubbish.

[Range Rover 1,935]

A ridiculous over-reaction with the aim of grandstanding yourself as politically correct. Bringing Hitler into the thread to incite your Jewish mates is pathetic. My comments were entirely about the style of football played by our indigenous contingent, and nothing more. You and several others here have decided that's racist. Well good on you. As previously stated, I think Aaron Davey is fantastic, and I hope he has a better year with a real role and a game plan. I hope Jurrah does the same. I also got stuck into Sylvia's behaviour, but he obviously doesn't fit the indigenous group, which does't fit your racist argument, so that hasn't been mentioned. Convenient for you.

What's racist is this comment from you .... Nice argument, except Lance Franklin's from Pakistan. And they're no good either!

I notice you've deleted your profile name Barry. Out of shame?

[... 11]

What's racist is this comment from you .... Nice argument, except Lance Franklin's from Pakistan. And they're no good either!

I notice you've deleted your profile name Barry. Out of shame?

Well done RR. Like that was serious. It was an initial attempt to settle people down who decided my post was racist. You've managed to make even that obvious (and let's be honest, it's bloody obvious) attempt at humour a stage for you to let everyone know how politically correct you are.

I deleted my name as a prelude to the obvious banning from this site I'm about to get. I leave with regrets, as I liked being a part of this site, but with nowhere near the shame as you should have for being such a fraud.

[... 11]

Rubbish.

What more than the qualities that these guys give our football club did I comment on?

[mauriesy 6,783]

I thought Kelvin Lawrence had some serious 'homesickness' issues during the year. Is he 'over' them? I note they didn't stop us from giving him a second-year rookie contract, with 'high hopes' for the future.

[... 11]

I agree with you totally WJ. I am very wary when people begin with the sentence, "I'm not racist, but......"

The long history of antipathy towards our own indigenous people is deeply ingrained in the culture. It will take a long re-education and and openness of heart for it to dissipate. Hopefully in time it will be no more than a trace-element in our national psyche. As Pauline Hanson and John Howard discovered to their electoral benefit, it's very easy to pick the scab, and having done that, there are many out there who can't resist the scratching. Anti-aboriginal sentiment is still out there and still has it's own momentum. It's not difficult to find anti-semitism either. Both of these racist sentiments have a long history.

For the record, I do sip cafe latte, chardonnay, and could be described by those wishing to give vent to their racist feelings, as a bleeding-heart lefty and a prisoner of political correctness. I do, on the other hand, also very much enjoy tea, beer, shiraz, pinot noir, water and have been known to make jokes which are not "PC".

It's easier for those who like to make racial generalisations to also generalise about those who might take issue with their statements, by labelling them with such pejorative terms as "politically correct". Maybe "political correctness" had very noble beginnings. The term has been hijacked by those who use it as an all-purpose tool to devalue a view they don't agree with.

PS. We all harbour racist feelings at times. It's the tribal nature of the human animal. It's whether we recognise them when they arise and how we deal with them that is the measure of our moral and social development. - End of Sermon

Fair enough. BUT, once again, my statements are linked to anti-semitism (HTF?). Seriously, you guys are projecting, and it's hard to believe it's not for a purpose unrelated to my post. The anti-aborigine sentiment that you talk about is also being ascribed to my post by you. FGS. It's fine to say the Irish drink too much grog, the English are whiners, and the Yanks are all stupid, but pigeon-hole four guys at our football club who are way under par at the moment, and put the kibosh on two others who will add nothing more - god help you. Now you're a Hitler supporter, and now you endorse the treatment of Aborigines by the 'white man' on their arrival 200 years ago. Jesus, I'm pretty sure WJ also linked me to the Bosnian Moslem's massacre.

Is there any chance that the comments I made could be taken for what they were? Probably not, it's just too tasty a treat for people to pass up.

[Blistering 490]

What WJ was pointing out was that racist comment shouldn't be taken lightly because its consequences, when taken to its extreme can be catastrophic. He gave as examples a wide ranging number of instances of genocide and that our indigenous people are among them.

It's a pity you don't understand that, Mr. ......... Dawson.

[Axis of Bob 10,169]

Is there any chance that the comments I made could be taken for what they were?

Yes, since your original post inferred that we shouldn't draft Manson on the basis that he is indigenous. There are many things that people say are racist, but aren't, but what you said genuinely is.

There are many other reasons we shouldn't draft him:

- He's a flight risk.

- He will take a lot of welfare support from the club.

- There is a risk that he will never adapt to AFL footy.

- Poor endurance.

- He doesn't fill a hole in our side.

- Indifferent exposed form.

- Being part of a particular racial group.

That said, I think WJ went too far posting about ethnic cleansing. Many people, I've found, struggle to understand the difference between what is and isn't racist. In the end the just rebel against it, calling it 'political correctness' because they are confused.

When barry_dawson, who is obviously confused about what is and isn't racist, starts being accused (albeit indirectly) of the same thinking as some of history's greatest monsters, then he understandably rebels against it. It may make people feel better when you smash them over the head with a big stick, but education is often a much better answer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_fPc1mINyA

Shaun Micallef is very funny, and intelligent..

Edited December 7, 2011 by Axis of Bob

[Blistering 490]

I'm not sure you were able to read my post Bob but I would have thought that by pointing out what happens in cases when racism is taken to its extreme is part of the process of education.

It's what happens at the extremes that makes racism repugnant but, as WJ pointed out, even at its most basic level, it can be hurtful to others and there's no place for it in society these days. People should really read his post (255) carefully to understand the exact point he's making.

When Kevin Rudd issued his apology it was accepted with grace and humility by the elders of our Aboriginal communities.

Perhaps Barry Dawson could do the same.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

I don't know Barry Dawson from a bar of soap but I think the public lynching he underwent here was just disgraceful.

[Axis of Bob 10,169]

What if I were to say that having a faith in some kind of religion is the same thinking that led to a million people being killed during the partition of India?

What if I said that believing in the seniors pension is the same sort of thinking that led to Stalin butchering millions of people?

If you take things to the extreme then you will only alienate the person you are trying to educate. I have managed to link almost every person in the world to some sort of extreme nutter. See how easy it is? It's too easy and, since it's so far from how barry dawson sees himself, it is equally easy to dismiss the link as the work of some 'PC bleeding heart', rather than of someone who wants to help remove the confusion.

Education is the way to help people move into the modern era, and it's impossible to educate someone if you immediately close their minds to education.

It's what happens at the extremes that makes racism repugnant but, as WJ pointed out, even at its most basic level, it can be hurtful to others ...

This I disagree with. Racism, even at its most basic level, is repugnant. Nobody deserves to be discriminated against and pre-judged purely on the basis of their race, be it for genocide, a job interview, the rookie draft or being offered the last piece of cake at a birthday party.

It isn't just socially unacceptable, it's the wrong thing to do.

[Whispering_Jack 27,929]

What if I were to say that having a faith in some kind of religion is the same thinking that led to a million people being killed during the partition of India?

What if I said that believing in the seniors pension is the same sort of thinking that led to Stalin butchering millions of people?

If you take things to the extreme then you will only alienate the person you are trying to educate. I have managed to link almost every person in the world to some sort of extreme nutter. See how easy it is? It's too easy and, since it's so far from how barry dawson sees himself, it is equally easy to dismiss the link as the work of some 'PC bleeding heart', rather than of someone who wants to help remove the confusion.

Education is the way to help people move into the modern era, and it's impossible to educate someone if you immediately close their minds to education.

This I disagree with. Racism, even at its most basic level, is repugnant. Nobody deserves to be discriminated against and pre-judged purely on the basis of their race, be it for genocide, a job interview, the rookie draft or being offered the last piece of cake at a birthday party.

It isn't just socially unacceptable, it's the wrong thing to do.

Sounds like the same thing to me.

I'm not sure where you plucked out this notion of my taking things to their extreme. Fact is I was simply suggesting the consequences of when others take their own racism to extremes as we've seen time and time over in the history of mankind. It's a complete nonsense to suggest that a discussion on racism should not incorporate the consequences of its worst excesses.

[Range Rover 1,935]

I don't know Barry Dawson from a bar of soap but I think the public lynching he underwent here was just disgraceful.

Sorry RobbieF but Barry himself anticipated a backlash and rightly so. The inference of his words was clear ... indigenous players are a flighty, high maintenance, ill-disciplined lot who too often bleed resources out of the football club.

It's blatant racism and he deserved the public flogging.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

Sorry RobbieF but Barry himself anticipated a backlash and rightly so. The inference of his words was clear ... indigenous players are a flighty, high maintenance, ill-disciplined lot who too often bleed resources out of the football club.

It's blatant racism and he deserved the public flogging.

I don't know what his motivation was but if he had criticized 4 tall skinny white players similarly then not a word would have been said. To link him to hitler was just atrocious and totally unwarranted.

There are some that spend their lives looking for the opportunity to label others racist.

[rumpole 480]

I don't know what his motivation was but if he had criticized 4 tall skinny white players similarly then not a word would have been said. To link him to hitler was just atrocious and totally unwarranted.

There are some that spend their lives looking for the opportunity to label others racist.

Bob's right.

We need a process of education but not just about the nature of racism.

A lesson in comprehension would do for a start.

[Demonland 64,417]

OK folks.

Everybody's made their point and it's been an instructive debate.

Please let's keep the discussion here to the subject of the thread.

Mr. Waylen Manson.

[Hells Gates 505]

Hi All. Im new to here, long time follower and wanted to have my say on Waylen as I can see conflicting stories, hope this helps. I live in Darwin and Waylen plays for the same club as my wife, who plays hockey at the Waratahs. Our next door neighbor is the president and we have been going to watch him and the big Fev who has been putting on a great show for us considering the delivery at times and the intense humidity. Just on Waylen, hes a tall skinny kid with heaps of flair and potential. Takes alot of hangers and is good on the lead and a straight kick for goal, and ridiculously evasive. My honest faults on Waylen is he doesnt chase or tackle and if the ball doesnt come his way he seems to mope around and sulk. No doubting his ability though. For those who have been questioning him the last month he has had a knee injury which had him sidelined for a week and was proppy for a couple of games. Last game he also spent alot of time in the ruck as Waratahs had Fev, Kayne Pettifer and Beau Runnalls in the forward line. Anyway it doesnt look like hes coming to the Dees but just wanted to add that his recent low patch was maybe due to an injury. Hope this helps.

[Jordie_tackles 354]

Hi All. Im new to here, long time follower and wanted to have my say on Waylen as I can see conflicting stories, hope this helps. I live in Darwin and Waylen plays for the same club as my wife, who plays hockey at the Waratahs. Our next door neighbor is the president and we have been going to watch him and the big Fev who has been putting on a great show for us considering the delivery at times and the intense humidity. Just on Waylen, hes a tall skinny kid with heaps of flair and potential. Takes alot of hangers and is good on the lead and a straight kick for goal, and ridiculously evasive. My honest faults on Waylen is he doesnt chase or tackle and if the ball doesnt come his way he seems to mope around and sulk. No doubting his ability though. For those who have been questioning him the last month he has had a knee injury which had him sidelined for a week and was proppy for a couple of games. Last game he also spent alot of time in the ruck as Waratahs had Fev, Kayne Pettifer and Beau Runnalls in the forward line. Anyway it doesnt look like hes coming to the Dees but just wanted to add that his recent low patch was maybe due to an injury. Hope this helps.

Aleays appreciated, thankyou for the insight from one who has never seen the boy play,and knows nothing but speculation

[Whispering_Jack 27,929]

Round 10 of the NTFL season is a big one because its the final chance for the Top End's prospective draftees to impress before the Pre Season and Rookie Drafts.

There's a double header at TIO Stadium with Palmerston playing Southern Districts followed St Marys and Waratah. I believe the Fev is a no show but Waylen Manson needs a big performance today.

Meanwhile, Austin Wonaeamirri makes his comeback as the Tiwi Bombers take on Nightcliff at Nightcliff Oval.

If our people on the spot have any information it would be appreciated either by posting or, in the case of the correspondents who have my mobile, SMS and I'll pass it on.

[Whispering_Jack 27,929]

So here's the scenario. The Tiwi Bombers (Aussie's team) are playing Nightcliff who are the top team. They need to win to stay in the top four because the fifth placed Southern Districts are favoured to win the early game. There are a couple of Motlops in the Nightcliff team and they're unbeaten.

Waratah started off winning their first six, losing the next two without both Fevola and Manson and drew with the Tiwis last week. They're still in second spot and play St. Mary's who are third. Winner gets second spot after ten rounds.

All exciting stuff.

[Chelly 738]

Report from the game that Austin doesn't look fit and late in the first quarter had no impact on the game. Can't expect too much at this stage but he does look to have left his run too late.

[Hells Gates 505]

Hi Chelly. To be honest who wouldn't struggle in this intense humidity! I played golf here today and it's sweltering! Thank god for beer!!

[Chelly 738]

Hi Chelly. To be honest who wouldn't struggle in this intense humidity! I played golf here today and it's sweltering! Thank god for beer!!

Yeah ... apparently 90% ... well actually 60%. Temperature 32 degrees.

Tiwis trailing by 4 goals closing in on half time after putting up a bit of a fight and hitting the lead early in the second quarter.

The weather's a lot different to what it was for Aussie's last game at Casey Fields in August and i'm not sure he wants to return to Melbourne anyway.

[Whispering_Jack 27,929]

Thanks guys.

Off the twitter from NT News:

#NTFL 1/2 time at Nightcliff Oval. Nightcliff 14.6 (90) lead Tiwi 7.8 (50). M Gugliotta 5 goals that qr alone #topend

The news is that Aussie is struggling a bit and being rotated off the bench.

If The Oracle's post is correct and the club can pass its final rookie selection and trial players for another couple of months it might give him a lifeline if his heart's in it and he wants to further his career with us.

If not, so be it and the best of luck. I hope he gets fit enough and healthy enough to enjoy plenty more celebrating up there.