Prendergast v Cameron

[Bhima 0]

For a wide variety of reasons this season has been a disappointment. For mine, one of the most significant reasons we played poorly was inability for our senior players to take their games to a higher level (let alone maintain their form from previous years).

Looking at the Eagles, for example, you can see a young team with a core of high quality senior players who have lead from the front and created a confidence in the playing group that has propelled them from the wooden spoon to the top four within 12 months.

I have noticed that the current playing list is almost exactly 50% percent of the players recruited by former head of recruitment Craig Cameron, who left in 2008, and his replacement, Barry Prendergast. Here are the two teams.

Cameron

Bartram Warnock Grimes

Garland Rivers Frawley

Morton Moloney Davey

Bate Dunn Petterd

Green Martin Maric

Foll: Jamar, Jones, Sylvia

Inter: Spencer, Wonneamirri, Mcnamara Sub: Newton

Prendergast

Bennell Davis MacDonald

Strauss Mcdonald Bail

Blease Scully Trengove

Howe Watts Jurrah

Jetta Fitzpatrick Tapscott

Foll: Gawn, Gysberts, Mckenzie

Inter: Cook, Nicholson, Evans Sub: Lawrence

Emergencies: Campbell, Johnston

The first thing that I notice is that Prendergast has pretty much drafted an entirely new team. The main weakness of Prendergast's list are key position defenders, which makes sense considering the strength of Cameron's drafting is the backline.

I also notice that a few years ago, I held high hopes for many of the players on Cameron's list that have failed to develop into consistently good AFL players. This underdevelopment, in tandem with the poor form of the senior players on the list, is what will make our rebuilt slower than that of other clubs. For those who want to see a rapid rise up the ladder, I would continue to stress patience.

The lack of stars amongst the senior playing list is unlikely to be changing anytime soon, unless a new coach can somehow conjure miracles, or unless we trade for a star. If Green and Davey cannot rediscover their best form (b&f winners in past two years), and if Scully goes, next year the team will continue to struggle until our young players, read Prendergast's team, can build strong frames to compete with mature squads a la Geelong and Collingwood.

Many of the player that Prendergast has pursued - lean and quick - are also likely to take longer to develop physically. Prendergast for mine also honed in on players with foot skills moreso than Cameron. Looking at Prendergasts list, there seems so much potential yet none are yet to dominate games consistently. The positive is that we have seen moments of genuine brilliance from many of our young players that I have never seen in Cameron's drafts (with a few exceptions)

Success now is about creating a positive organizational culture, finding a quality coach and having luck with injuries. There are no gaurentees. However, once things click into place, and that may still be 2-3 years away, then the rapid improvement will come.

I would be interested to know what others think of the two teams, how fast we will progress, and where we will focus our next lot of draft picks. Furthermore, now that we have drafted a new team, should our early draft picks be used to trade in senior players?

[Deefender 200]

Good analysis Bhima.

Prendergast is doing a good job.

I would hope Davey is returned to the forward line where he did well in the past.

[Guest Thomo]

Interesting read.

It can be hard to judge. Natural ability counts for a fair bit, but so does development.

Can Prendergast be blamed for Baileys inability to develop players and poor facilities at the Junction oval, or did Bailey have nothing to work with because the drafting was poor?

If Cameron’s recruits turn out better because was he a better recruiter, or will they have the benefit of better facilities and a coach who can help them develop?

[Captain Jack Jordan 32]

I guess the pressure is on all the older guys to lead.

They have to try to inspire confidence in the new kids .

Seems to be more footskills in the Prendo bunch .

[Jack Jack 415]

For me Strauss and Blease had put a big question mark over Prendergast until this season. Strauss showed a great deal this season until his leg gave way. And it's easy to see how good Blease could be now that he's been introduced to AFL level.

[PaulRB 5,897]

I think that we should not react to hastily (i.e. trade picks for older players) to a very average year from several of our older players. As West Coast has shown this year, these slumps can be turned around in a year and form of yesteryear recaptured.

Prendergast has done far better of the two, especially as he's only been there since 2008 and Cameron has had 10 year to accumulate his list.

[Allus Monk 568]

I guess the pressure is on all the older guys to lead.

They have to try to inspire confidence in the new kids .

Seems to be more footskills in the Prendo bunch .

I think a lot of the time Cameron was recruiting the big body solid midfielder was in vogue - as established by Brisbane and to some degree Collingwood 2001 - 2004. I think disposal skills carried a smaller premium than being able to smash packs for a big part of that era. Hence Maclean, Sylvia, Moloney, Jones.

[Pennant St Dee 11,250]

IMO it only confirms a belief I have that the club is (albeit slowly) turning the corner and we are left with the remnants of a list that had run its race under Cameron & Danniher. Good times ahead like every one else I hope they come soon.

PS Cameron's Backline is good though but under he and Danners we lacked hardness which is showing now and the kids have this but will take a few years to grow and really show it

Edited September 9, 2011 by Pennant St Dee

[Disco Demons 92]

Prendergast has it hands down....Class of 2009:- Scully, Trengove, Gysberts, Tappscott, Gawn and Fitzpatrick...any rookies i've missed?

[Supermercado 2,609]

Does Moloney qualify even though we didn't 'recruit' him? Shouldn't he and Joel Macdonald be sitting on the sidelines watching this clash of the titans go on in front of them?

[Bhima 0]

Does Moloney qualify even though we didn't 'recruit' him? Shouldn't he and Joel Macdonald be sitting on the sidelines watching this clash of the titans go on in front of them?

In this Royal Rumble Moloney and MacDonald qualify. Cameron chose Moloney from a young squad of Cats as the logical replacement for Thompson as Melbourne needed hardness in the centre square. I've often wondered who else we may might have got had Cameron not chosen Moloney, but rather sought Bartel, Kelly or Chapman - all of whom where were not yet stars. Cameron openly stated it was Moloney he wanted, so he's in. As for Macdonald, we could have chosen others in that pre-season draft, indeed, I thought Dylan Grimes was taken by the Tigers after MacDonald. Although I think Joel has been a reasonable pick up, Grimes is starting to develop nicely into a key defender...but I suppose we have enough of them atm.

Perhaps further proof of some disappointing drafting by Cameron is the fact that all of the players that I figure we will be moving on - Warnock, Newton, Maric are his picks. Of course Prendergast has only been around for three years so he has some time up his sleeve, but honestly, is there anyone he has selected that doesn't look like they could contribute to a highly successful team? (leaving out some late rookies in Johnston and Campbell and the seasoned Joel Mac, mind you Nicholson and Evans have been brilliant selections in a weak draft and Lawrence has something about him - he did have 20 tackles in a VFL reserves game, has pace to burn and is a much improved kick).

[Ron Burgundy 8,584]

In this Royal Rumble Moloney and MacDonald qualify. Cameron chose Moloney from a young squad of Cats as the logical replacement for Thompson as Melbourne needed hardness in the centre square. I've often wondered who else we may might have got had Cameron not chosen Moloney, but rather sought Bartel, Kelly or Chapman - all of whom where were not yet stars. Cameron openly stated it was Moloney he wanted, so he's in. As for Macdonald, we could have chosen others in that pre-season draft, indeed, I thought Dylan Grimes was taken by the Tigers after MacDonald. Although I think Joel has been a reasonable pick up, Grimes is starting to develop nicely into a key defender...but I suppose we have enough of them atm.

Perhaps further proof of some disappointing drafting by Cameron is the fact that all of the players that I figure we will be moving on - Warnock, Newton, Maric are his picks. Of course Prendergast has only been around for three years so he has some time up his sleeve, but honestly, is there anyone he has selected that doesn't look like they could contribute to a highly successful team? (leaving out some late rookies in Johnston and Campbell and the seasoned Joel Mac, mind you Nicholson and Evans have been brilliant selections in a weak draft and Lawrence has something about him - he did have 20 tackles in a VFL reserves game, has pace to burn and is a much improved kick).

To be fair, Cameron selected Thompson who then elected to leave the club. Cameron nailed that selection - Thompson is a bloody good player.

[dee-eee 231]

To think of all those Information Nights i attended, dwelling on every word uttered by Craig Cameron et al and it wasn't until G.C.& G.W.S. were recruiting the pick of the kids that other clubs concluded it might just be possible that some players are late maturers. A 22 year-old Podsi in the goal square ?........ a ridiculous notion !

[Nasher 33,047]

To be fair, Cameron selected Thompson who then elected to leave the club. Cameron nailed that selection - Thompson is a bloody good player.

Many on Demonland would have you believe that Cameron should've "screened" Thompson and asked him all the "hard questions" to really find out whether he'd stick around in the long term.

[rpfc 27,406]

Many on Demonland would have you believe that Cameron should've "screened" Thompson and asked him all the "hard questions" to really find out whether he'd stick around in the long term.

Yeah, we should have seen it coming...

I have always thought our problem has been development rather than recruiting.

Bailey was better but we need to turn these good players into stars.

Malthouse needs to teach us how.

[Redleg 37,521]

Many on Demonland would have you believe that Cameron should've "screened" Thompson and asked him all the "hard questions" to really find out whether he'd stick around in the long term.

I remember at the time a number of us saying that Scott would leave because Daniher wasn't playing him.

[wisedog 326]

Cameron has had plenty of misses, but he also picked picked some gems...

Let's not forget his 1999 draft, which was probably his finest year (Green, Wheatley, Whelan, Bruce).

With limited opportunities, he also drafted our entire backline, which is the only area of the side I have any real confidence in.

Jared Rivers - pick 26, 2002

Matthew Warnock - Rookie Draft, 2005

Clint Bartram - pick 60, 2005

James Frawley - pick 12, 2006

Colin Garland - pick 46, 2006

Jack Grimes - pick 14, 2007

Jamar, Davey, Petterd and Martin were also great late selections from Cameron.

However, he got it wrong in the drafts of 2001 (Molan, Armstong, Miller) and 2002 (Bell, Smith, Rivers, Moorcroft, Hunter, Ferguson). 2003 was a lean draft all round, but at least we got Sylvia. The jury's still out on the 2004 draft with Bate, Dunn and Newton all playing plenty of games, but still only fringe players.

In terms of established players - Sylvia, Rivers, Jamar and Davey is a pitiful return for those 4 years of drafting, and it's reflected in our lack of on-field leadership today.

Edited September 10, 2011 by wisedog

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Cameron did have hit and misses.

1999 and 2005 have been very good for us

2001 and 2004 have been poor returns. I would have thought the jury would not have to deliberate long on Bate, Dunn and Newton.

He did well to gst Thompson in 2000.

But he was also hamstrung with salary caps penalties in 1999 and 2000.

The one time he had high draft picks it was in the worst draft year ever 2003.

Sylvia has been OK and we traded the downside away on McLean to Carlton who wore the pain.

We did some terrible trades for Paul Johnson, Moorcroft, Heffernan and Byron Pickett. Moloney is nowhere near Scott Thompsons class.

Prendergast has had higher picks and the top 12 picks he has had need to be stars if MFC are to succeed. I think you need at least 5 years to assess Barry's success.

[Bring-Back-Powell 13,120]

Hard to believe Prendergast overlooked 2 potential all time greats in Nik Nat and Dustin Martin.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Hard to believe Prendergast overlooked 2 potential all time greats in Nik Nat and Dustin Martin.

Hyperbole and hindsight are poor partners.

[Jordie_tackles 354]

Hard to believe Prendergast overlooked 2 potential all time greats in Nik Nat and Dustin Martin.

And only recruited 3 "potential"....all time greats in Watts, Scully and Trengove

Wadda Hack

[Jordie_tackles 354]

Hard to believe Prendergast overlooked 2 potential all time greats in Nik Nat and Dustin Martin.

And only recruited 3 "potential"....all time greats in Watts, Scully and Trengove

Wadda Hack

[Little Goffy 12,541]

You understand that Prendergast didn't have ALL the picks in the 08/09 drafts, right?

Personally, I'd rather have Trengove over Martin, and Scully is, well, a moot point as of any moment now.

But in general I don't think there can be a lot to be added by looking at who was not taken. Just who was, and whether they were good choices.

Of course, it is also very difficult to judge given that Craig Cameron had a lot more time, but Barry Prendergast has had much 'richer' selections to work with. Similarly, everyone Cameron brought in has had time to be examined, whereas guys like Blease and Gawn can still only be looked at on potential.

For me, I'd have to say Prendergast is ahead at this stage because I don't think he has had any dud drafts. Obviously he has also had a lot of high picks to work with, but even removing them from the equation, I think he has done well to always get a selection of players who have been credible as AFL level players.

I think the absence of outright bad choices is the most you can ask of a recruiter. Plus the occasional Liam Jurrah or Tom Rockliff.