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Dappa Dan

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1 minute ago, Dappa Dan said:

I don't think the falcons will play like that again this year. Seattle are building nicely, and Dallas are unlucky not to be 3-2.

Beat the Skins next week, and the lid that's off will be vapourised.

Sad thing is it's 2 weeks in arow.. Can't drop 2 home games back to back against the Bills and Dolphins! Go into foxborough on MNF football next week in the SB rematch, staring 3-3 in the face. 

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1 minute ago, JV7 said:

Sad thing is it's 2 weeks in arow.. Can't drop 2 home games back to back against the Bills and Dolphins! Go into foxborough on MNF football next week in the SB rematch, staring 3-3 in the face. 

Hmm. Well you make a good case. The Bills I can understand. Their D has been lights out. But Dolphins... ugh.

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1 hour ago, Dappa Dan said:

Hey hey. I aint no troll.

And yes. I saw Hundley a couple of pre-seasons ago and thought he had the goods. I think you're suffering from the fact you're used to watching Rodgers or Favre running around. You have to lower your expectations now that you have mortals under centre.

Really?

You don't think that has ALREADY crossed my mind? 

 

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Just now, Macca said:

Really?

You don't think that has ALREADY crossed my mind? 

P.O and go and lecture someone else.

Whoa?!!!

That escalated quickly? I wasn't lecturing anyone? Was just genuinely asking?

I mean, [censored]. My team's backup is Foles. I'd take Hundley in a heartbeat over him.

Relax Macca. Noone's lecturing anyone.

Jeez. You'd think Green Bay fans had never lost a game before or something...

Wait...

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1 hour ago, Dappa Dan said:

Whoa?!!!

That escalated quickly? I wasn't lecturing anyone? Was just genuinely asking?

I mean, [censored]. My team's backup is Foles. I'd take Hundley in a heartbeat over him.

Relax Macca. Noone's lecturing anyone.

Jeez. You'd think Green Bay fans had never lost a game before or something...

Wait...

I'm not a happy camper ... can't you tell?

Season is over and Rodgers injury sounds like it might even  be career threatening.

My apologies to you and all for losing it.  I should have stayed away from thread today. 

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Just now, Macca said:

I'm not a happy camper ... can't you tell?

Season is over and Rodgers injury sounds like it might even  be career threatening.

My apologies to you and all for losing it.  I should have stayed away from thread today. 

Understood completely.

I really think once the offense gets used to Hundley's completely different style of play, they might do ok. The Tackles are getting healthy, The D still does more good things than bad generally. They've got Lambeau. And their receivers can go toe to toe with anyone.

And they haven't ruled out Rodgers for playoffs yet. All they have to do is get there. It's a bit like the Colts. They're all doom and gloom early in the year, then they win a few and suddenly they're desperate to get Luck back on the field, because they can potentially make a playoff run if he's there.

But yeah. I mean it's Rodgers. You can be forgiven for packing it in, so to speak. He's like a cheat code.

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I reckon their no chance without Rodgers.. Best hope is they can sneak into the playoffs and he can be back from there, either way it's a long way back.. The NFC really has opened right up, if it wasn't already. 

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16 minutes ago, Dappa Dan said:

Understood completely.

I really think once the offense gets used to Hundley's completely different style of play, they might do ok. The Tackles are getting healthy, The D still does more good things than bad generally. They've got Lambeau. And their receivers can go toe to toe with anyone.

And they haven't ruled out Rodgers for playoffs yet. All they have to do is get there. It's a bit like the Colts. They're all doom and gloom early in the year, then they win a few and suddenly they're desperate to get Luck back on the field, because they can potentially make a playoff run if he's there.

But yeah. I mean it's Rodgers. You can be forgiven for packing it in, so to speak. He's like a cheat code.

Normally collarbone fractures are a 7 or 8 week injury but they are saying season.  If it's in the same spot as his previous break,  it could be a bad break. 

I'm also annoyed that we don't play a more conservative game with Rodgers using more tight ends and our  running game continues to be sub par.

It was an accident waiting to happen the way McCarthy coaches the team.  And I've been saying it for years now.  We all know are own teams well.

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Just now, Macca said:

Normally collarbone fractures are a 7 or 8 week injury but they are saying season.  If it's in the same spot as his previous break,  it could be a bad break. 

I'm also annoyed that we don't play a more conservative game with Rodgers using more tight ends and our  running game continues to be sub par.

It was an accident waiting to happen the way McCarthy coaches the team.  And I've been saying it for years now.  We all know are own teams well.

Yeah? Do you mean because he likes to get Rodgers throwing on the move more than lots of coaches? Doesn't recruit good protection for him?

I was watching the game when it happened. Did you see him getting carted off? I was really surprised to see the injury news a few hours later because he supported his own weight with both hands when he sat on the back of the cart. Seemed to me to be not too painful? Mind you, the painkillers might have just kicked in.

I'm not gonna act like I'm not pleased that when the Eagles play them, Rodgers won't be there. And likewise I'm not gonna act like it's extraordinarily lucky that Rodgers was fit to play Dallas, thereby making life easier for my team.

But the comp is poorer for him not being out there. Tuning in to see them play will be really interesting... seeing how everyone adapts... but let's call a spade a spade. 2017 NFL just got a little bit crapper.

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31 minutes ago, Dappa Dan said:

Yeah? Do you mean because he likes to get Rodgers throwing on the move more than lots of coaches? Doesn't recruit good protection for him?

I was watching the game when it happened. Did you see him getting carted off? I was really surprised to see the injury news a few hours later because he supported his own weight with both hands when he sat on the back of the cart. Seemed to me to be not too painful? Mind you, the painkillers might have just kicked in.

I'm not gonna act like I'm not pleased that when the Eagles play them, Rodgers won't be there. And likewise I'm not gonna act like it's extraordinarily lucky that Rodgers was fit to play Dallas, thereby making life easier for my team.

But the comp is poorer for him not being out there. Tuning in to see them play will be really interesting... seeing how everyone adapts... but let's call a spade a spade. 2017 NFL just got a little bit crapper.

From my point of view the only thing I'm really interested in is why they are calling it a season ending injury. 

Last time he broke his collarbone they were adamant it was only a 6 week injury (he came back in 8 weeks)

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4 minutes ago, Macca said:

From my point of view the only thing I'm really interested in is why they are calling it a season ending injury. 

Last time he broke his collarbone they were adamant it was only a 6 week injury (he came back in 8 weeks)

Yeah. And it was still almost mid game when they made that call.

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10 minutes ago, Dappa Dan said:

Yeah. And it was still almost mid game when they made that call.

The pain threshold is less with repeat injuries ... he looked almost matter-of-fact about it.

The worry is that the bone might be somewhat shattered.  It's 12 full weeks to the playoffs so a 16 week injury? 

 

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8 minutes ago, Macca said:

The pain threshold is less with repeat injuries ... he looked almost matter-of-fact about it.

The worry is that the bone might be somewhat shattered.  It's 12 full weeks to the playoffs so a 16 week injury? 

 

Yeah I see what you mean. I have Max Gawn in my head. If you predict an injury like that for, say, Eli... then you put him in cotton wool and see what your kids have got, given they're not going to the playoffs.

But Rodgers? At 50%... You'd give it a go if you did your due diligence.

Of course a lot depends on how Hundley/Romo go. lol

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9 minutes ago, Dappa Dan said:

Yeah I see what you mean. I have Max Gawn in my head. If you predict an injury like that for, say, Eli... then you put him in cotton wool and see what your kids have got, given they're not going to the playoffs.

But Rodgers? At 50%... You'd give it a go if you did your due diligence.

Of course a lot depends on how Hundley/Romo go. lol

Might be right hand side of the collarbone instead of the left ... throwing arm vs non throwing arm. 

My point still stands with regards the high risk game that he plays.  Three times this year he's been hit hard in a similar way ... in 3 separate games.

Oh ... and the Giants won :blink:

And I did foresee the Packers or the Pats losing.  Had an uneasy feeling and there it is.

 

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39 minutes ago, Macca said:

Might be right hand side of the collarbone instead of the left ... throwing arm vs non throwing arm. 

My point still stands with regards the high risk game that he plays.  Three times this year he's been hit hard in a similar way ... in 3 separate games.

Oh ... and the Giants won :blink:

And I did foresee the Packers or the Pats losing.  Had an uneasy feeling and there it is.

 

I knew it was too good to be true, everyone picking both Pats and Pack. If there's one thing demonland NFL tipping has taught us is that if it's a sure thing, it probably won't happen.

It would have been a perfect weekend had Skins lost to 49ers. And they very nearly did.

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45 minutes ago, Dappa Dan said:

I knew it was too good to be true, everyone picking both Pats and Pack. If there's one thing demonland NFL tipping has taught us is that if it's a sure thing, it probably won't happen.

It would have been a perfect weekend had Skins lost to 49ers. And they very nearly did.

I'm filthy I didn't back the Steelers at $2.75! Had this feeling after the horror show the week before they'd win and KC were well and truly due!

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Just a final word on the Packers and the loss of Rodgers ... I originally thought we'd be behind 3 teams in the NFC this year - Atlanta,  Dallas & Seattle.  Detroit were a danger as well as the Vikings (with Bradford)

But the way the games are panning out,  those 5 teams have got their issues and whilst the Eagles,  Panthers & Rams have ramped it up,  those 3 teams still need to maintain their good form.  So, the year was opening up for a number of teams to achieve a high seed in the playoffs. 

Green Bay were over the more difficult part of their schedule (already played Seattle,  Atlanta & Dallas) so a more conservative approach against the Vikings (with a stand-in QB) was all that was really needed. 

Then half way through the first quarter Rodgers is scrambling around (for the umpteenth bloody time) and then goes down again.  Belichick wouldn't have had Brady doing as such so why does McCarthy persist with this high-risk QB play?  Crazy stuff.  Our strength is also highly predicable so it was only a matter of time before Rodgers was hurt again.  They'll target him even more now.

McCarthy = Chris Scott and the Packers have a one-dimensional game like Geelong has.  Good enough to win enough games to make the playoffs but there are always 1 or 2 teams who are our achilles heel.  49ers then Seattle then Atlanta. 

McCarthy has had 10 years to build a running game and/or to bring in some tight ends but nothing has changed.  We're basically a team that totally relies on Rodgers finding his wide receivers.  It should be remembered that our defence was the 5th best for points allowed in 2010/11.  Since then, our defence has gone backwards.

Unless some sort of miracle occurs, the Packers have thrown away an absolutely golden opportunity this season.  And you've got to take your chances when they present themselves.

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I've watched red zone, so I've not read comments and won't until I've watched both SNF & MNF. But just a comment on what I saw. Crazy week  in the NFL. Rodgers going down hurts packers massively. Jets looked great early but the pats... Well patsed them... Lynch iis a shadow of the beast he was. Why rredzone kept showing the KC/Steelers game as the default game to watch when no team were in the redzone has me beat. It was a crap game. Onto tthe Rams. Good win, Gurley is playing well, special. Teams were insane and were the difference. I am so use to our D being great that I'm struggling to come to terms with them just being OK. If Wade can get the D humming... 

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16 hours ago, Macca said:

Just a final word on the Packers and the loss of Rodgers ... I originally thought we'd be behind 3 teams in the NFC this year - Atlanta,  Dallas & Seattle.  Detroit were a danger as well as the Vikings (with Bradford)

But the way the games are panning out,  those 5 teams have got their issues and whilst the Eagles,  Panthers & Rams have ramped it up,  those 3 teams still need to maintain their good form.  So, the year was opening up for a number of teams to achieve a high seed in the playoffs. 

Green Bay were over the more difficult part of their schedule (already played Seattle,  Atlanta & Dallas) so a more conservative approach against the Vikings (with a stand-in QB) was all that was really needed. 

Then half way through the first quarter Rodgers is scrambling around (for the umpteenth bloody time) and then goes down again.  Belichick wouldn't have had Brady doing as such so why does McCarthy persist with this high-risk QB play?  Crazy stuff.  Our strength is also highly predicable so it was only a matter of time before Rodgers was hurt again.  They'll target him even more now.

McCarthy = Chris Scott and the Packers have a one-dimensional game like Geelong has.  Good enough to win enough games to make the playoffs but there are always 1 or 2 teams who are our achilles heel.  49ers then Seattle then Atlanta. 

McCarthy has had 10 years to build a running game and/or to bring in some tight ends but nothing has changed.  We're basically a team that totally relies on Rodgers finding his wide receivers.  It should be remembered that our defence was the 5th best for points allowed in 2010/11.  Since then, our defence has gone backwards.

Unless some sort of miracle occurs, the Packers have thrown away an absolutely golden opportunity this season.  And you've got to take your chances when they present themselves.

McCarthy = Scott... lol So true. 

I had it as Falcons Dallas and Packers, throw a blanket over them. Seattle just a notch back. Now there's something like 8 teams and you can't confidently pick any. Super exciting.

It's interesting with Rodgers. They did go out and get (the other) Rodgers, and Cook last year. I remember a lot was said about how many TEs he had as pass catchers... but you're right... None are known blockers who do amazing work in that regard. They also lost their tackles this season... so the OL has been disrupted. I reckon as an opposition supporter, the thing you're scared of most with Rodgers is when he scrambles laterally and throws on the run. In my time following the game, certainly noone has done it better.

But yeah, I think I see your point. I'm getting it a bit with Wentz now. He moves great out of trouble, and gets 30-50 rushing yards a game often. That extra weapon is great when it works, but you're always fearful he's a few games away from being injured.

I reckon in their early days, every NFL fan watches a read option QB and thinks they're what you want as a QB... then after a few seasons following an injured guy, you realise how great it is to watch a pure pocket passer like Manning or Brady. When you look at Rodgers, yes he's great on the move, but he's great in a clean pocket too. I reckon you see them go heavily for OL in the next couple of years as he reaches his late thirties.

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5 hours ago, Gorgoroth said:

I've watched red zone, so I've not read comments and won't until I've watched both SNF & MNF. But just a comment on what I saw. Crazy week  in the NFL. Rodgers going down hurts packers massively. Jets looked great early but the pats... Well patsed them... Lynch iis a shadow of the beast he was. Why rredzone kept showing the KC/Steelers game as the default game to watch when no team were in the redzone has me beat. It was a crap game. Onto tthe Rams. Good win, Gurley is playing well, special. Teams were insane and were the difference. I am so use to our D being great that I'm struggling to come to terms with them just being OK. If Wade can get the D humming... 

Everyone's worried about what it'll be like when the D start dominating. But the real news is that the offense and Goff/Gurley/McVay have created the buzz. Get used to it for the next 12-15 games. I love watching Rams right now, but don't get me wrong, I want Eagles to beat them. I keep secretly hoping pressure on Goff will make him wobble a bit, but he's getting it out so fast.

Looking forward to 7 weeks from now... How has Rams OL been? Them vs Eagles DL...

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2 hours ago, Dappa Dan said:

McCarthy = Scott... lol So true. 

I had it as Falcons Dallas and Packers, throw a blanket over them. Seattle just a notch back. Now there's something like 8 teams and you can't confidently pick any. Super exciting.

It's interesting with Rodgers. They did go out and get (the other) Rodgers, and Cook last year. I remember a lot was said about how many TEs he had as pass catchers... but you're right... None are known blockers who do amazing work in that regard. They also lost their tackles this season... so the OL has been disrupted. I reckon as an opposition supporter, the thing you're scared of most with Rodgers is when he scrambles laterally and throws on the run. In my time following the game, certainly noone has done it better.

But yeah, I think I see your point. I'm getting it a bit with Wentz now. He moves great out of trouble, and gets 30-50 rushing yards a game often. That extra weapon is great when it works, but you're always fearful he's a few games away from being injured.

I reckon in their early days, every NFL fan watches a read option QB and thinks they're what you want as a QB... then after a few seasons following an injured guy, you realise how great it is to watch a pure pocket passer like Manning or Brady. When you look at Rodgers, yes he's great on the move, but he's great in a clean pocket too. I reckon you see them go heavily for OL in the next couple of years as he reaches his late thirties.

I'd much rather Rodgers played a role in a similar vein to Peyton or Brady ... in fact, Elway reeled Peyton way back in, in that SB winning year. 

No individual is bigger than the team and Green Bay need to look no further back than Vince Lombardi for that line of thinking ... with the Demons it is obviously Norm Smith.  The same principles apply.  Mourinho preaches it and so too did Ferguson. 

McCarthy often looks like he is awe-struck by Rodgers yet Belichick seems to treat Brady like just another commodity.  I'm not for one minute apportioning any blame on Rodgers either. 

The Packers play a flawed system in the sense that it needs a super-talented QB in order for it to work.  Hundley could find himself throwing interceptions and/or getting hurt himself.  I'm not confident tbat both those issues won't occur.

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58 minutes ago, Macca said:

I'd much rather Rodgers played a role in a similar vein to Peyton or Brady ... in fact, Elway reeled Peyton way back in, in that SB winning year. 

No individual is bigger than the team and Green Bay need to look no further back than Vince Lombardi for that line of thinking ... with the Demons it is obviously Norm Smith.  The same principles apply.  Mourinho preaches it and so too did Ferguson. 

McCarthy often looks like he is awe-struck by Rodgers yet Belichick seems to treat Brady like just another commodity.  I'm not for one minute apportioning any blame on Rodgers either. 

The Packers play a flawed system in the sense that it needs a super-talented QB in order for it to work.  Hundley could find himself throwing interceptions and/or getting hurt himself.  I'm not confident tbat both those issues won't occur.

I'm really interested to see what changes. I reckon your Displeasure at McCarthy will double if he rolls out the same system for what is essentially a completely different player. This sort of thing can be a great opportunity for growth. Imagine if, in the next 10 weeks, Hundley throws for 20TDs and 10Int and authors some good wins and gets his team to the playoffs. He'll find himself straight away into a starting job next year for someone, and you'll have a juicy new second round pick to get that Tight End you want so badly.

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33 minutes ago, Dappa Dan said:

I'm really interested to see what changes. I reckon your Displeasure at McCarthy will double if he rolls out the same system for what is essentially a completely different player. This sort of thing can be a great opportunity for growth. Imagine if, in the next 10 weeks, Hundley throws for 20TDs and 10Int and authors some good wins and gets his team to the playoffs. He'll find himself straight away into a starting job next year for someone, and you'll have a juicy new second round pick to get that Tight End you want so badly.

We're lucky in the sense that we've got a number of 50/50 games coming up but the onus will be on the coaching of McCarthy. 

The next 6 ... vs Saints,  vs Detroit,  @ Bears,  vs Ravens,  @ Steelers,  vs Bucs.  There's 3 wins in that lot if McCarthy coaches great.  Maybe 4 wins but that's a stretch.  So we could be 7 & 5 or maybe even 8 & 4 after 12 games ... or we could lose 4,  5 or all 6 of those games and that would just about be it. 

But again,  McCarthy has to coach great,  we can't rely on or even expect Hundley to be great.  We're about to find out whether McCarthy can coach under great adversity. 

I don't hate McCarthy,  I just don't rate the bloke.  He's Mr Average in my eyes and I want great. 

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1 minute ago, Macca said:

We're lucky in the sense that we've got a number of 50/50 games coming up but the onus will be on the coaching of McCarthy. 

The next 6 ... vs Saints,  vs Detroit,  @ Bears,  vs Ravens,  @ Steelers,  vs Bucs.  There's 3 wins in that lot if McCarthy coaches great.  Maybe 4 wins but that's a stretch.  So we could be 7 & 5 or maybe even 8 & 4 after 12 games ... or we could lose 4,  5 or all 6 of those games and that would just about be it. 

But again,  McCarthy has to coach great,  we can't rely on or even expect Hundley to be great.  We're about to find out whether McCarthy can coach under great adversity. 

I don't hate McCarthy,  I just don't rate the bloke.  He's Mr Average in my eyes and I want great. 

Fair enough. ie the Scott brothers.

And yeah. On the plus side Hundley's been there, what, 3 years? McCarthy at least knows his man. And his man knows the playbook. Romo would have been terrific fun... but Hundley is your best chance.

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    Demonland | March 26

  • Training  

    Monday, 25th March 2024

    Demonland Trackwatchers Demon Dynasty & Kev Martin were trackside at Gosch's Paddock today to bring you their observations from training ... READ MORE

    Demonland | March 25

  • Casey Report      

    HIBERNATING by KC from Casey

    When they locked up the rooms for summer at the end of last year’s football season, the rooms gathered cobwebs, the atmosphere became dense and the place developed a sleepy feel. They opened up the rooms to let Casey out to play on Sunday but the team was still hibernating and they missed the bulk of the opening quarter ... READ MORE

    Demonland | March 25

  • PreGame      

    PREGAME: Rd 03 vs Port Adelaide

    The Demons head out on the road for the next 2 weeks as they travel to Adelaide to play Port on Saturday and then have a 5 Day break before facing the Crows in Gather Round. With injuries to May and Lever who comes in and who goes out? ...READ MORE

    Demonland | March 28

  • Match Report      

    A FORK IN THE HAWK by George on the Outer

    For too long in the past, Demon fans became habitually sick and tired of watching the Hawks hand out thrashings to their side. But Melbourne’s empahtic 55-point win at the MCG on Saturday has truly put a fork in the Hawk and turned that history well and truly on its head ... READ MORE

    Demonland | March 23

  • Post Game      

    POSTGAME: Rd 02 vs Hawthorn

    The Demons cruised to an easy 55 point win over the Hawks at the MCG but but paid a heavy toll on the injury front with Steven May & Jake Lever possibly sidelined for a number of weeks ...READ MORE

    Demonland | March 23

  • Votes      

    VOTES: Rd 02 vs Hawthorn

    Last week Steven May took the lead in the Demonland Player of the Year Award from Jack Viney. Clayton Oliver & Max Gawn round out the Top 4. Your votes for the win/loss against/to the Hawks. 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 ...READ MORE

    Demonland | March 23

  • Game Day      

    GAMEDAY: Round 02 vs Hawthorn

    It's Game Day and after mixed results in the first two weeks of the season the Demons have the opportunity to capitalise on their good form last week when they take on the Hawks at the MCG today ... READ MORE

    Demonland | March 23

  • Training  

    Friday, 22nd March 2024

    Demonland Trackwatcher Kev Martin and I attended the Captain's Run at Gosch's Paddock on this lovely sunny morning to bring you the following observations from the training session ... READ MORE

    Demonland | March 22

  • Training  

    Tuesday, 19th March 2024

    Demonland Trackwatchers Kev Martin & Walking Civil War attended Tuesday morning's training session at Gosch's Paddock to bring you the following observations ... READ MORE

    Demonland | March 19

  • Training  

    Saturday, 16th March 2024

    Demonland Trackwatchers Kev Martin and Dee Zephyr wandered down to Gosch's Paddock on Saturday morning to bring you their observations from the Captain's Run in the lead up to Sunday's Round One match against the Bulldogs ... READ MORE

    Demonland | March 16

  • Farewell  

    Angus Brayshaw Retires

    After 167 games including the drought breaking Premiership Angus Brayshaw has made the heart breaking decision to medically retire from football as a result of a series of serious head knocks over his nearly decade of footy. We wish Gus all the best and he'll always be a hero at Demonland ... READ MORE

    Demonland | February 22

  • Latest Podcast  

    PODCAST: Koltyn Tholstrup Interview

    I interview the Melbourne Football Club’s newest recruit Koltyn Tholstrup to have a chat about his journey from the farm to the Demons, his first few weeks of preseason training, which Dees have impressed him on the track and his aspirations of playing Round 1 ... LISTEN

    Demonland | December 14

  • Latest Podcast  

    PODCAST: Jason Taylor Interview

    I interview the Melbourne Football Club's National Recruitment Manager Jason Taylor to have a chat about our Trade and Draft period, our newest recruits, our recent recruits who have yet to debut as well as those father son prospects on the horizon ... LISTEN

    Demonland | November 27

  • Next Match 

    .

    Round 03

       vs   

    Saturday 30th March 2024
    @ 07:30pm (AO)

  • MFC Forum  

  • Match Previews & Reports  

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  • Topics

  • Injury List  


      PLAYER INJURY LENGTH
    Jake Lever Knee Test
    Clayton Oliver Hand Test
    Oliver Sestan Concussion Test
    Steven May Ribs 1 Week
    Lachie Hunter Calf 1 Week
    Daniel Turner Hip 2-3 Weeks
    Charlie Spargo Achilles 2-4 Weeks
    Shane McAdam Hamstring 3-5 Weeks
    Jake Bowey Shoulder 7 Weeks
    Jake Melksham ACL 12-14 Weeks
    Joel Smith Suspension TBA

  • Player of the Year  


        PLAYER VOTES
    1 Christian Petracca 27
    2 Steven May 25
    3 Max Gawn 21
    4 Jack Viney 20
    5 Bayley Fritsch 19
    6 Clayton Oliver 18
    7 Christian Salem 12
    8 Blake Howes 11
    9 Jack Billings 10
    9 Alex Neal-Bullen 10

        FULL TABLE
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