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Dappa Dan

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Dappa Dan last won the day on June 14 2017

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About Dappa Dan

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    Melbourne

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    Gawn, JKH, Gawn, Tyson, Salem and Gawn.

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  1. Dappa Dan

    Jessie Hogan Trade to Freo

    That's a good point. Most of the seasoned heads here lived through scully, of course. Crash course in PR crap.
  2. Dappa Dan

    Jessie Hogan Trade to Freo

    There's "floating the idea" then there's saying "he's not very good and we'd be better off without him."
  3. Dappa Dan

    NFL

    I haven't had a look yet. Look forward to it. I'm pumped to see Rosen now he's been named.
  4. Dappa Dan

    Jessie Hogan Trade to Freo

    Lever wasn't even contracted and is nowhere near as good a player as Jesse. The price HAS to be a lot higher than two mid-late firsts. Jesse is a once in a generation KP forward. They don't grow on trees. Noone-'s offering ridiculous trades here. The only ridiculous one is two firsts and Brayshaw. And even then, it's only ridiculous cos they can't afford it. Not because it isn't fair. Check out the kinds of trades other professional sports throw up for players that aren't even once-in-a-generation. We're quaint and provincial if we think 2 first rounders is somehow a wacky, nutty offer.
  5. Dappa Dan

    Jessie Hogan Trade to Freo

    I swear to god I thought Scully was involved somehow...
  6. Dappa Dan

    Jessie Hogan Trade to Freo

    1. I see what you mean, but I'm seeing him get space on those 5-10 metre quick twitch leads often... My problem is less his pace, more when he times those leads. Often he's finding a very small hole and the space closes before the play can show itself as a good option for the passer. You know the lead I'm talking about.. the one where he takes 5 steps at 100%, someone drops into the hole, and he sooks... Not only that but we just don't have good inside fifty kicks (besides Melks), which really impacts his confidence in a lead. Plus, in years gone by, his strength has been... well... strength. He LOVES the physical stuff. Always has. In his first few years part of the joy of watching him was out in front of players on a lead from the square. What's changed since then? I refuse to believe he's gotten slower (he's 24)... I think it's oppo teams identifying that he's too good to leave with a paddock in front of him. Which is why so many of his goals were over the back this year. 2. Sort of explained this one above. I really think it's oppo coaches seeing the tape on him from years 1-3... You don't have to be a genius to see that demons are strong in the air. Max, TMac and Hogan... we're gonna have mid-tall defenders dropping into the hole for the next 5 years, it's a certainty. And nah, I dunno about the "forwards make it easier." I really do think we lack in footskills when going inside fifty and that that's a huge part of why he's not as effective. The proof of that is when Salem and Melksham get busy. Suddenly Jesse looks like he's a genius when those guys get enough of the ball on a forward flank. When it's almost anyone else, he looks dumb. Picture ANB or Gawn or even Jones, Trac kicking inside fifty. There's some pretty awkward touch in amongst those names. I don't even think Ben Brown would have him beaten. And if you want a list of forwards in his class that I think are slower. There's one. Daniher another. McCarthy. Tomohawk. Westhoff. Dixon. McCartin.... there's more than a few that move similar or slower than him. He's a big lad after all. 3. Can agree to disagree too. I've seen him kick for tough many times. I'm not saying he's Salem or anything, but he has the deft touch. I think where you have a point is the Tracca-like kick, 50 metre lofted ball that lands softly in the lap of a forward running full tilt. Jesse doesn't have that kick. Then again... I don't recall too many demons in my life that do. Thing of beauty. 4. Yeah certainly haven't seen it since his first two big years and a little in his injury-riddled year. But as I say... I'm confident he'll find that again. I have a feeling his endurance work has sapped his burst energy. Gee he was blowing hard at the end of games. 5. What's the key difference between Kennedy, Buddy and Riewoldt vs Hogan. Age. What were those three guys doing, defensively, in their early 20s? Absolutely NOTHING. That's not an excuse, of course. But as I say, I think when a player like him isn't working better in that area it can be because his coach has set him a role. He leads so much and runs so far, doubles back... then sits in a pocket. I'm not sure where hes supposed to defend within that routine. That's not to say I disagree... but it's worth pointing out Riewoldt plays a vastly different role. So does Buddy. Actually only Kennedy is similar. No disagreement from me on Jack Reiwoldt. My favourite non-demon. Has been for about 5 years. I've always loved Hogan precisely because he does all the KP forward stuff well (at least). I've always wanted to have one that doesn't have a glaring weakness. That's what I see with Jesse. When the worst people can say definitively on him is that he has odd body language sometimes, I reckon it's cos he's above average in every other category. That's why I love him. It builds trust from a fan's perspective. Weird that we're discussing a player this much who won't even be at MFC in a few weeks. I would point out though, that we can dispute how we see him as a player all we want... I suspect what's really important is only how FREO see him. He's already a decorated player. Rising stars and club goalkicker awards... As much as we have our thoughts... It's Freo's and Peter Bell's that are important.
  7. Dappa Dan

    Jessie Hogan Trade to Freo

    We're not "entertaining" the idea of a trade. We know he's gone in 12 months so are getting what we can while we can. Besides... the club wasn't considering trading him til he came to us and said he wouldn't sign at any point next year. 1. Hogan's among the quickest KP forward going around. Regularly burned opponents off up the ground with a tank many had spoken of as Riewoldt-like. Don't know what you've been watching. Around the bye his foot flared up and he took a hit to his overall impact. But was still dominant in most games in this area. 2. Fair enough. I saw him run under the ball a bit early this year which I didn't like. His previous three years though, he was superb at leading and doubling back. I'll go with the bulk of the data I've seen in which he's strong in this area. Kicking 40 a year as a kid in a crap side tells you all you need to know about his leading and deep forward credentials. 3. Distance kicking? I'm with you. You love to see a big-time KPF be able to eke out a 55 metre drop punt when absolutely called upon. Maybe wind assisted. Watts was this guy for a while. It'd be tough, but it was within him. Jesse wasn't that guy. But as with all the other myths perpetuated on here by people who want him out of the club because they don't like distractions, Jesse is among the straightest kicks going around for the kids coming through now. His 4 seasons to date... 44.19, 44.33, 20.6, 47.23... for a total of 155.81.... There's nothing wrong with his kicking at goal. When it comes to field kicking, he's genuinely one of the best in the side. His stab kicks are a thing of beauty. Not only that but his decision making and set ups down the ground work great. Going inside fifty, sure, he wasn't as sharp. But then... who was at MFC this year. 4. Pack marks. How often in years 1-3? Regularly and with startlingly effective bodywork. He'd outpoint bigger, older opponents, marks it at its highest point. And close to goal. When he didn't he would clean up 2 defenders leaving spillages for Garlett to work his magic. This year? Certainly since his injury around the bye I don't think I saw him jump at a ball once. Before that, he was down on his pack marking as well. Overall though, he's still a sensational pack mark and pack buster. He doesn't have the sky-scraping ability of Weed, or the strength in the contest of TMac. But then... who does... 5. I don't recruit a Jesse Hogan for the defensive efforts. He gets a few tackles here and there, particularly when given a run in the midfield. But as with Weed (when he's not rucking) and TMac... no-one's asking these guys to get in and under like Olly. In fact if they did you'd be annoyed they're not further forward kicking goals. I buy your point when we're pressing up after a behind... but when we do (and we do it well), Jesse is almost always the man on the mark. His forward pressure is all about applying some corralling, then getting back and offering a big body target. So I can't go with you on any of your points. And am four square against you on a couple of them. But I get your point. I think if you want t o do a breakdown of 5 faults, you can do them for anyone in the league, just about. Including the guy who just won the Brownlow. We don't have to agree though... and I hope you're right. I hope he's just a good ordinary. The stats suggest though that he's absolutely exceptional. The comparison between him and guys like Brown, Riewoldt and others... he's ahead of them. That says it all.
  8. Dappa Dan

    Jessie Hogan Trade to Freo

    Sure have. I always look back at the Buddy one. Hawks fans were always relatively at peace with it. They'd won a flag with him, and were looking to the future despite getting very little back. I'm hoping I can get to that stage.
  9. Dappa Dan

    Jessie Hogan Trade to Freo

    TMac, of course, is the other one to mention there. He's just about as proven as Jesse. Contested marking, straight kicking, huge engine... got the lot. Just is a bit older and has less time left in his career. Probably has just a few less strings to his bow too... Weid won't be doing it on his own. TMac is a helluva companion up there. But yeah, no doubt you take Jesse out of any team and they're worse.
  10. Dappa Dan

    Jessie Hogan Trade to Freo

    I admire your gumption. But I can't go with you. If we had huge distractions around trade period for the next 8 years, but got 300 games of Jesse Hogan in return? I'd take that every day of the week, and so would almost any other club. It's the price you pay for having good players. They always have a target on their back.
  11. Dappa Dan

    Jessie Hogan Trade to Freo

    Jesse goes to that club with Fyfe still there... their first rounder next year wont be within the first 5. And it won't be a superdraft. Only way that future pick becomes sexy to us is if they bottom out completely and win a spoon. GC will have that covered for the next few years.
  12. Dappa Dan

    Jessie Hogan Trade to Freo

    You're right. He's worth that and a player. It all comes down to how you value the guy. Many on here have him as a fly in the ointment who's a distraction and only gets in the way every trade period. The same people say Wiedeman is basically just as good. I'm not with them. I've been watching all his games just like everyone else, and I think he's a generational talent, the best KP forward under 25, and will go down as the best of his era. If you don't see it that way, then I won't argue with you. Hell, you may be right... But if we're talking value, what we're losing, what we stand to gain... Then you have to run an experiment, and imagine the best sub-25 KPF you can imagine in your mind. THEN apply a trade value. Aside from how we see him though, fair enough, I can't argue.
  13. Dappa Dan

    Jessie Hogan Trade to Freo

    I've watched us get screwed while clubs like Hawks and Pies give up junk for players like Omeara, Aish and others... I see your point. 2 firsts etc etc... My view, and I've been saying this for a long time now, is that 2 firsts isn't actually enough. It sounds great, but break it down. The two Freo picks are likely 4 and 5 (5 and 6 after Lynch moves)... which isn't enough to get Max King. We would get May and another mid. Or May and a pick. Hell, even IF Max fell to us at 5, he's a 200+cm player... we had Watts and Weed take years to do anything of use, and neither were anything like the value Hogan is. Even if a KP player taken at that age came on, it'd be 5 years from now when we're in a different window. That's IF those picks turn out good at all. Which so often, they don't... especially talls. Hogan, Weed, TMac... Now becomes TMac, Weed, Preuss... Spare me. Lever, Omac, Frost now becomes May, Lever, Omac.... An improvement, but not much of one. I just rate Jesse that highly that even 2 picks, while the going rate, doesn't fill me with enthusiasm.
  14. Dappa Dan

    Jessie Hogan Trade to Freo

    I have a sneaking suspicion the last time he signed, he agreed behind closed doors to extend two years until the new CBA was done, with a view to leave then to maximise his value.
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